PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K, K.
1 fold, MP raises, Button calls, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, MP calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 8, J, 9 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP calls, Button folds, SB calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) J (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP calls, SB calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 8 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP checks.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

Something about 3 betting preflop there just strikes me as wrong, since it's going to build a pot and lower my chances of chasing anybody on weak draws out later. Other than that, I think I played it okay - couldn't really give away free cards on the turn, even though someone might have the jack. I would've folded to a raise there, obviously.

Don't think like that. 3-bet preflop for value.

Bet the river.

Why not check the Flop and bet the Turn? If they are on a draw they have the odds to call the bets on the Flop and the Turn. If you only bet the Turn they don't have the odds to call. The Flop is scary, so a free card is probably not so terrible.

For one, I feel like I need the flop bet to define my hand. If I check the flop and someone bets it then a second jack falls on the turn, it becomes very questionable whether or not I'm ahead. Here, I have a better understanding of where I stand.

Are you serious?

We don't really care if they have odds to call or not. All you care about is increasing your EV, don't worry about theirs (especially in multiway pots... giving them poor odds to call means if they call they will be giving money away when they call, or you will win whats in the pot if they make the correct fold, this is true. But in a multiway pot this big, someone IS going to have proper odds to call, and you are probably not going to win without a showdown)

Worstcase drawing scinaro, someone has a flush draw, someone has a straight draw, AND aonther has a pair. In this worstcase scenario, you only have about a 15% chance to hold up by showdown. As played, you would have an EV of about +0.15BB. If you checked the flop instead your EV would probably be more like +0.35BB. In this case, checking is better, yes. But things will rarely be that grim.

Typically your chance of winning at showdown with this multiway flop is more like 35% (or better). And as played, you would have an EV of about +2.2BB. If you checked, you would end up with about the same EV. However, if your little plan to check the flop in hopes that the turn pot odds will cause someone to fold works, the fold will probably come from the person with a really poor draw or nothing at all(statisticaly speaking, the person who gives away the most money to you). And you just gave him a free card to try to catch. In this multiway pot, you are not goting to get everyone to fold with this ploy. So, you don't improve your win percentage much, but you will loose out on some bets and you will actually end up with a LOWER EV!!


Also, note that even if you bet the flop and are wrong and it is that grim, it is still not a loosing play. On average, betting your pair against a draw or two gives much better EV.

Furthermore, by only checking the flop you give up control of the hand making it a little more difficult to play the future streets.

Played perfect. Bet the river.

bet fold the river?

Call me passive but that's a scary card. If the OP didn't include MP's action on the river, I think some of us would've advocated checking the river.

You might be right... I suck at poker though.

Always push this preflop for value.
Screw "giving odds".
Build a pot with your best hands.
No fear.

I bet this river.
You may get called with any Ace in the big pot on the double paired board.



--CM

3-betting pre-flop is very, very standard. You better not be doing anything else or you're sacrificing major EV. I don't see any reason not to bet the flop and the turn. River is debatable. If you do bet, you almost have to bet/fold. If both villains are passive enough that you don't think they'll bluff/raise you on the river then you should probably bet, if you're ot sure what you'll do if raised I think you should probably check. Against unknowns I probably check here. You might be sacrificing a little EV by doing so, but you could also save yourself sanity points if you don't know your opponents well and you don't know how you'll handle a raise.