When you have 11-14BBs in a SNG, how often do you try to steal & with what hands? Do you make slightly smaller raises than normal? Do you usually c-bet the flop or do you generally check if you miss?

I play 6 man SNGs but the answers shouldn't be much different for full table. I know this is a pretty generic question and depends on other factors, but I find this to be a tough spot & any answers would be appreciated.

depends on a lot of factors...but generally I will be pushing if I'm coming into a pot at all. I don't play suited connecters or smaller pp now unless I am stealing as the implied odds just aren't there.

Your question is too generic to answer definitively. Post some hands to have a better discussion.

Have you read Harrington on Hold'em (all three volumes)? If not, do so. He talks about a concept called "M” that is more important than how many BB's you have. It is the cost for an entire orbit (both blinds and antes), and it can be adjusted for a short handed table.

With BB’s ~ 12, you have an M ~ 8, and you should be looking to steal, but selectively. Make your moves from late position (Button and CO) with hands with some showdown value (A8+, KT+ or better).

If the flop is checked to me, I (almost) always c-bet half the pot when heads-up; your odds are too great not to. You only have to win 1 of 2 c-bets to break even, and that discounts entirely that you’ll win some pots later in the hand.

I certainly have read HOH. A lot of the M concepts in HOH apply don't really apply to SNGs. The reason is because simply cashing is already 20% of the prize pool (or in the case of the 6 man SNGs I play: 35%). Therefore, SNGs require much tighter bubble play. Don't get me wrong, I loved the HOH books (except maybe with the exception of HOH3) but if you live and die by the M advice he tells you in his books you will get creushed in SNGs.

SnGs require tighter bubble play if people are close to going out or you have maniacs. Failing that, there's no real difference. That said, in a 6-man, you need to be playing for first. Limping into 2nd with a monster chip disadantage isn't the goal. Yes, you'll cash more, but your ROI will be lower. Similarly, in a full table SnG, don't play for 3rd.

not on Party
60/40 Payouts.
Play to Cash. Even more so than playing to cash in the 10 man, where 1st pays 2.5x 3rd.




imo, I don't steal much when I get 15X BB.
In the 6 Man, you make thm money by getting paid off hugely on your made hands not by stealing and cb'ing into a bunch of calling stations.
And then play super aggressive if you get low.

Some tables you can; but I dont' want to waste 2.5 + 3 BB on preflop and flop trying to steal with a marginal hand and M < 10.

also, I get donk bet into all the time by the BB when I"m raisng from LP with a mid-short stack.

No offense, but most people who say play for 1st don't quite understand SNG play as well as they could and probably don't have the ROI that they could achieve if they studied the game more. You play SNGs to cash. You don't go all out playing for first. You play MTTs for first, not SNGs. Simply cashing in a 6 man SNG already nets you 35% of the prize pool. Even if your opponent has a big chip lead you can still easily come back considering most of your opponents are donks anyway. Also, 6 man SNGs allow for a lot of post-flop play. Therefore, you can usually build yourself a pretty nice stack by the time the blinds get high. Play to cash. Then play for 1st. Playing strictly for 1st nets too many bubble bustouts and is -EV in a SNG.

I'll admit I don't play 6-man SnGs, I play full tables, and honestly there, playing "to cash" is pointless. I'll gladly bubble in a 9-person Stars SnG if it means I'm nearly guarnateed 1st or 2nd as opposed to taking third. That said, my current cash rate is around 52%...I guess that might be low compared to trying to creep towards the bubble, but of those, I finish 1st or 2nd 82% of the time, so I think that's a fair trade off, honestly.

But to each their own.

you do very well cdpierre.

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Here's two possible misconceptions imo to discuss that cause a bigger void between the "cashers" and the "Play for 1sters" that may not really be as big as first glance

1. Playing for first does not decrease your chances to cash as much as the "Cashers" think

2. Playing for 1st does not actually increase your chances of getting first over the play-to-cash-then-play-for-first strategy as much as the "Play for 1sters" would lead you to believe.


Now, that folks.. is good chum for discussion!

Ah yes, the old bubble-play/play for 1st question.

Well, in a 2-place 60/40, I'm going to assert that none of us are good enough to be as precise as to aim for 1st specifically. Aim for the money and if you get heads-up, then you've given yourself a chance to win. With this payout structure, you must be aggressive on the bubble. And attack those shortstacks with any two cards you'd be willing to show-down against them. (though, if the table is hyper-active, then of course be more selective). If the table is normal or weak, then take charge.

and, yes HoH certainly applies. And, I'm told HoH 3 even has some SnG content.

With 11-15BBs, I steal often on the bubble. Especially in position. With that Many BBs, you don't have to commit your whole stack. But if you're going to auto-C-bet, then consider putting it all-in preflop instead.
-M

There are way too many factors for this to be an easily answerable question. For one thing, I think "playing for first" in general only starts to becomes profitable at the $55 level, and only really becomes profitable at the $109 level and higher since that's where people understand the cashing concept well enough not to make a lot of borderline calls with a small stack.

In general though, I tend to tighten up my steals just a little bit when I have in the 11-13 bb range, but not much. I maybe steal with about 80% of the hands that I'd push with if I had 10 bb or below. Also, I like the 2.5 bb raise here if you have weak-tightish players on the bubble since they usually just don't want to get involved in pots and will leave you alone unless you have something.

If you're playing with a bunch of calling stations in a $11 SnG though, I'm not sure I can help you much. I think in general, you're just going have to suck it up and play "standard" boring tight bullshit strategy, folding the best hand a lot until you get in the money.

i agree here, and would take it a step further...in a SnG you probably arent stealing at all except on the bubble, and for bubble plays you need to define all the stacks.