Critique on all streets is appreciated, but especially the direct questions. Thanks! (results for hands 2 & 3 in white)

1. Should I raise on 4th to better define his hand? Considering the check on 5th, would drawing at the 8 be appropriate in any way (assuming normal players, no maniacs)?

Full Tilt Poker Game #827158718: Table Walnut - $1/$2 Ante $0.20 - Limit Razz - 5:01:42 ET - 2006/07/24
Seat 1: AngryGnomeGuy ($28.95)
Seat 2: Developer ($25.45)
Seat 3: Heather ($12.85)
Seat 4: NutjobXXX ($57.95)
Seat 5: Comin4You ($42.45)
Seat 6: DJ_TheFish ($2.50)
Seat 7: LBlancaB ($34.25)
Seat 8: fluffhead ($62.45)
fluffhead antes $0.20
NutjobXXX antes $0.20
LBlancaB antes $0.20
Comin4You antes $0.20
AngryGnomeGuy antes $0.20
Heather antes $0.20
Developer antes $0.20
DJ_TheFish antes $0.20
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to AngryGnomeGuy [9d]
Dealt to Developer [5d]
Dealt to Heather [Kd]
Dealt to NutjobXXX [8s]
Dealt to Comin4You [2d Ah] [6h]
Dealt to DJ_TheFish [5h]
Dealt to LBlancaB [Jc]
Dealt to fluffhead [Js]
Heather is high with [Kd]
Heather brings in for $0.25
NutjobXXX folds
Comin4You completes it to $1
DJ_TheFish folds
LBlancaB folds
fluffhead folds
AngryGnomeGuy folds
Developer has 15 seconds left to act
Developer calls $1
Heather folds
*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to Developer [5d] [6d]
Dealt to Comin4You [2d Ah 6h] [8d]
Developer bets $1
Comin4You calls $1
*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to Developer [5d 6d] [As]
Dealt to Comin4You [2d Ah 6h 8d] [Td]
Developer checks
Comin4You checks
*** 6TH STREET ***
Dealt to Developer [5d 6d As] [5c]
Dealt to Comin4You [2d Ah 6h 8d Td] [6s]
Developer bets $2
Comin4You folds


2. Obviously a steal attept. I feel I'm getting called by middium cards here feeling that he thinks I might be on a steal (which is why I call fourth, too try and take it away again). Now we're on 6th and I don't know if my 9's any good, but I'm drawing pretty live at an 8. Making the 87 on the river did I miss a value bet?

Full Tilt Poker Game #827156579: Table Walnut - $1/$2 Ante $0.20 - Limit Razz - 4:59:38 ET - 2006/07/24
Seat 1: AngryGnomeGuy ($29.60)
Seat 2: Developer ($26.10)
Seat 3: Heather ($13.25)
Seat 4: NutjobXXX ($54.75)
Seat 5: Comin4You ($35.50)
Seat 6: DJ_TheFish ($8.90)
Seat 7: LBlancaB ($34.65)
Seat 8: fluffhead ($64.85)
Heather antes $0.20
fluffhead antes $0.20
Comin4You antes $0.20
NutjobXXX antes $0.20
AngryGnomeGuy antes $0.20
LBlancaB antes $0.20
Developer antes $0.20
DJ_TheFish antes $0.20
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to AngryGnomeGuy [Kh]
Dealt to Developer [Kd]
Dealt to Heather [5d]
Dealt to NutjobXXX [9s]
Dealt to Comin4You [9h 8c] [4h]
Dealt to DJ_TheFish [Ts]
Dealt to LBlancaB [Qh]
Dealt to fluffhead [Tc]
AngryGnomeGuy is high with [Kh]
AngryGnomeGuy brings in for $0.25
Developer folds
Heather folds
NutjobXXX folds
Comin4You completes it to $1
DJ_TheFish calls $1
LBlancaB folds
fluffhead folds
AngryGnomeGuy folds
*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to Comin4You [9h 8c 4h] [Kc]
Dealt to DJ_TheFish [Ts] [Ad]
DJ_TheFish bets $1
Comin4You calls $1
*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to Comin4You [9h 8c 4h Kc] [2s]
Dealt to DJ_TheFish [Ts Ad] [3c]
DJ_TheFish bets $2
Comin4You calls $2
*** 6TH STREET ***
Dealt to Comin4You [9h 8c 4h Kc 2s] [6d]
Dealt to DJ_TheFish [Ts Ad 3c] [8d]
DJ_TheFish bets $2
Comin4You has 15 seconds left to act
Comin4You calls $2
*** 7TH STREET ***
Dealt to Comin4You [9h 8c 4h Kc 2s 6d] [7d]
DJ_TheFish checks
Comin4You checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
DJ_TheFish shows [Th 2h Ts Ad 3c 8d As] (T,8,3,2,A)
Comin4You shows [9h 8c 4h Kc 2s 6d 7d] (8,7,6,4,2)
Comin4You wins the pot ($13.35) with 8,7,6,4,2


3. Gnome's raise could easily be a steal. Not an uncommong move for him, thus my reraise. Hand proceeds... make another 87 on the river, did I miss a bet?

Full Tilt Poker Game #827141569: Table Walnut - $1/$2 Ante $0.20 - Limit Razz - 4:45:53 ET - 2006/07/24
Seat 1: AngryGnomeGuy ($18.85)
Seat 2: Developer ($30.80)
Seat 3: Heather ($16.60)
Seat 4: pokrjo ($17.40)
Seat 5: Comin4You ($36.45)
Seat 6: DJ_TheFish ($9.50)
Seat 7: LBlancaB ($23.50)
Seat 8: fluffhead ($65.05)
pokrjo antes $0.20
Heather antes $0.20
fluffhead antes $0.20
AngryGnomeGuy antes $0.20
Comin4You antes $0.20
LBlancaB antes $0.20
Developer antes $0.20
DJ_TheFish antes $0.20
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to AngryGnomeGuy [2h]
Dealt to Developer [Ts]
Dealt to Heather [Qh]
Dealt to pokrjo [Jc]
Dealt to Comin4You [Tc 8d] [2d]
Dealt to DJ_TheFish [Qc]
Dealt to LBlancaB [Kh]
Dealt to fluffhead [Td]
LBlancaB is high with [Kh]
LBlancaB brings in for $0.25
fluffhead folds
AngryGnomeGuy completes it to $1
Developer has 15 seconds left to act
Developer folds
Heather folds
pokrjo has 15 seconds left to act
pokrjo folds
Comin4You raises to $2
DJ_TheFish folds
LBlancaB folds
AngryGnomeGuy calls $1
*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to AngryGnomeGuy [2h] [Qs]
Dealt to Comin4You [Tc 8d 2d] [Ac]
Comin4You bets $1
AngryGnomeGuy calls $1
*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to AngryGnomeGuy [2h Qs] [8c]
Dealt to Comin4You [Tc 8d 2d Ac] [9h]
Comin4You bets $2
AngryGnomeGuy calls $2
*** 6TH STREET ***
Dealt to AngryGnomeGuy [2h Qs 8c] [Ad]
Dealt to Comin4You [Tc 8d 2d Ac 9h] [7d]
Comin4You checks
AngryGnomeGuy checks
*** 7TH STREET ***
Dealt to Comin4You [Tc 8d 2d Ac 9h 7d] [3s]
Comin4You has 15 seconds left to act
Comin4You checks
AngryGnomeGuy checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Comin4You shows [Tc 8d 2d Ac 9h 7d 3s] (8,7,3,2,A)
AngryGnomeGuy mucks
Comin4You wins the pot ($11.35) with 8,7,3,2,A

1st hand: I actually would raise it there to better define his hand. I honestly don't think he's starting with 2 cards in the hole lower than 6 or he'd most likely raise your completion on 3rd.

On 5th, he's checking, so unless he's a victim of FPS, I bet out here, as that can be a good indicator of whether or not he paired up underneath.

2nd and 3rd hands both: your check on 7th is good, you've got scary 8-low (draws at least) on 6th out against you, both of which beat you. A bet gets called down by anything that beats you, and only a couple hands that don't. You also face the risk of being raised. If you're betting here, you have to ask yourself if you're ok with being raised in that situation. I'm not ok with getting raised there, so the check is smart.

1st hand - As played, I think I would call down. I like either a raise on 4th or a bet on 5th to define villain's hand.

2nd hand - I think you played it fine.

3rd hand - I probably just fold on 3rd. As played, a river bet probably does have some value. I don't think you get raised by an 8 very often here.

hand 1: Im ok with the call (though im going through a period where I cant make a 5 card hand right now, so I might be a little passive), his check on 5th definitely could be a sign of weakness, but since he bet out on 6th after he obviously didnt improve I feel like he could already have you beat (maybe he has 92 or something in the hole, and for whatever reason didnt want to bet out on 5th, your fold on 6th is fine, if you call on 6th then you have to call on 7th no matter what.

hand 2: raise to try and steal is fine, but after he hits and you blank why are you even still in the hand, unless he paired the ace he knows he's ahead no matter what you have, by catching something on 5th and 6th street you're forced to keep calling even though its likely you're behind and you luck out by winning the hand because hes an idiot (his call on 3rd is horrible under all circumstances) I dont know how much razz you've played but you dont win money at low limits by trying to outplay people because they dont fold anything, you win money by value betting again and again when you know they're way behind. After you miss on 4th just muck the hand and move on. And a bet on 7th would be bad, he's supposed to have a better 8 than you in this spot but he cant bet it beacause you have 246 showing, but he cant fold it either.

hand 3: you're trying to outplay people again, if he has nothing then best case scenario for you is that you hit on 4th he misses, you bet he folds and you win a small pot. More often he'll have something here and you need to outdraw him and you end up chasing with the worst of it. No reason to try to resteal here, you have nothing invested except the ante, just muck and move on.

you arent going to move people off hands in micro limit razz so stop trying, just play your hands and make them pay when you hit a hand since they'll keep chasing with the worst of it.

*I* would have raised on 4th, but it's not a set-in-stone play. It really depends on your style. He is most likely figuring that your completion on 3rd was a steal attmept, and he had a speculative hand like the (4, 9) 5, 6 and wanted to wait to see what you caught before betting. He has no idea that you have the dirty A,2. The only downside to raising is that you are pretty much telling him you have A2 or A3 so you might not be able to make that extra bet if you catch lower than him on the next street (unless he is a moron and just chases anyways, which could totally be the case, especially online mirco limit). But by betting you will punish him a good amount of the time for doing so with a pretty good low draw.

The upside of just calling is you keep the pot smaller (and maybe keep him bluffing) whilst saving an extra bet provided you shut down if he starts catching babies and you brick. You'll grit your teeth while doing it, but you have to do it. I think when he catches the A on 5th street (the worse card he could have gotten) and you catch that 10, you have to just take the free card and shut down if you don't improve. I like the fold here (even though his hand is paired) because with YOUR hand as it turns out, the only hand you beat is a bluff (or a bet by a maniac who thinks his 10 low is good). I am guessing he got lucky on the river and caught a 2 or a 3, but I could be playing too much above the rim. Sounds like you got unlucky. Welcome to Razz.



Yes (although I completely agree with Scottyno that you should have folded when he caught the A. What were you trying to hope for?).

But since you kept calling, and got lucky by hitting a semi-decent hand, I would have just bet the river because it looks like our villian kept improving while defending vs your steal attempt. When he checks on the river, he's pretty much telling you that he just missed UNLESS he is a river check-raiser. His call on 3rd street was terrible (when I initally read the hand I put him on [7, 6] 10 lol), and was eeking out continuation bets as he kept catching good cards. You called him down, which was specualtive at best, and you kept hitting as well. If he actually did have 2, 3; 3, 5 (and one of the fives is gone); or 7, 4, he would have re-raised you on 3rd and bet on 7th (because he would of had a solid low or the nuts). It also helps you caught a 2, making him less likely to have one. But it depends on your confidence level and how you like to play. I tend to bet more marginal hands for value on later streets to set up bluffs for later, although in micro limit Razz that isn't as effective because people just call anyways (hence why I bet more marginal hands for value, too). It really depends in the faith of your reads.



I am actually susprised you didn't keep betting because you played this hand terrifically UNTIL, I believe, you got scared when he caught the Ace on 6th street to give him A,2 low.

If you felt in your heart of hearts he was stealing, you MUST keep betting. This has to be decided before the following streets. Again, it's my style, but I tend to be a bit more super aggressive in Razz and push smaller edges if I feel I have them, especially when I think someone is full of it.

He check-calls when he catches a Q, pretty much tells me he got his hand caught in the cookie jar and is trying to save face. I'm not betting because I am trying to outplay someone.....I'm betting because I think I have the best hand.

I would have kept betting into him to make him prove to me he has the A,2,3,4/A,2,3,5/A,2,4,5. If he had those hands, he would have told you by now by 3-betting on either on 3rd (because he would of actually had a hand) or betting on 6th (because he would of have either a great draw or had solid 8 low). Although he might NOT call on 6th or 7th, even if he just has a very speculative long shot draw, you might as well try to bet and make him pay. If he gets lucky, you'll know by his river bet and you can safely fold.



This is some of the better advice you'll get for online Razz. People chase for far too long and can't lay down hands. So when you feel you have the best of it, just bet. Sometimes it will be during marginal situations, and you can make money off those, but if you are also just called by hands that beat you, you are in a good game because if you played Razz players who actually knew how to play, they should and will re-raise you.