This may be somewhere else out there on the forums, but what are people's top 5 NL Holdem Tournament Player both now and ever.

Now:
1 - Phil Ivey
2 - Daniel Negranu
3 - Chris Ferguson
4 - John Juanda
5 - Eric Lingren (by the way i feal like Eric Lingren is one of the most underated players in the world)

Ever:
1 - Stu Ungar
2 - Phil Ivey
3 - Jonny Chan
4 - Daniel Negranu
5 - Phil Hellmuth

It's very hard limiting the list to only 5, but thats why 5 is all I want.

P.S.
Sorry Negranu for puting you behind Chan, it's a tough decision and first I wrote you down as 3rd, then convinced myself to change it.

Now:
1. Phil Ivey
2. Daniel Negreanu
3. John Juanda
4. Allen Cunningham
5. Mike Matusow

Ever:
1. Stu Ungar
2. Jonny Chan
3. Phil Ivey
4. Doyle Brunson
5. Phil Hellmuth

Now:
Ivey
Negreanu
Juanda
Hellmuth
Lindgren

Ever:
Can't say order, but 5 of the best consist of:
Brunson
Unger
Hellmuth
Chan
Ivey

LOL at those who picked Lindgren over Hellmuth.

Obviously any list is going to be subjective, but I still find the lists you guys are putting up interesting.

Honestly, everyone around here thinks that Hellmuth is so over-rated that he's actually very under-rated on this forum.

I haven't played with any of these players. There's a good chance I might never play with any of these players.

But just based on results I see and opinions I read I think there are some over sights in the lists above.

For one thing, how is Dan Harrington not on either list. Not only has he authored the most respected series of NL tourney books in the world but he has the results in the WSOP to back it up. Consecutive third and fourth place finishes in 03 and 04 is just sick. Not to mention he won it all in 95.

On the all time list I'm not sure how you can leave off Johnny Moss.

Now
1)Phil Hellmuth
2)Phil Ivey
3)John Juanda
4) DN
5)Patrick Antonius

Ever
1)Ungar
2)Hellmuth
3)Brunson
4)DN
5)John Juanda

Best NL Holdem Tounament Players

(Please excuse the spelling, Im coming off a long session)

Now

1.Phill Hellmuth
2.Phil Ivey
3.Greg Rahymer
4.Daniel Negeneau
5. Mike Madasuw

Ever

1. Johnny Chan
2. Doyle Brunson
3. Phil Hellmuth
4. Phil Ivey
5. Daniel Neganeau

Allthough Hellmuth is a fish head in the cash games I think you guys underrated him in tournaments, he has been as far as I know, the most consistent performer in tournaments ever. Seems like every time I watch an older poker tournament he is at the final table. Ivey needs no explination, Greg Rahymer I believe does not play WPT events because of the legal dispute, and its just rediculous his performance at the main event (especially since the pressure is on), and he could have won it in 2005 too if it wasnt for Aaron-suckout--Kanter. Daniel needs no explination. Mike Madasuw is underrated, 3 out of the last 5 years he has reached the end of the main event, and likey would have won in 2005 if it wasnt for the cooler. He has many WPT final tables.

Stu Unger is not on my list because I don’t think he was considered an amazing tournament player. Either Doyle or Barry said that in both of his WSOP wins if he got top pair cracked he woulda went broke. Allthough he may be the best cash game player of all time I don’t think he was as good in tournaments. In 1997 when he won he sucked out against 2 pair with top pair I believe 2 win it.

I left out johnny moss cause I’ve never seen what he won, im kind of ignorant on the matter. But from what I have heard he defiantly deserves a spot on the top 5.

I think you need to give serious consideration to Greg Raymer, After winning the world series he made the top 30 the following year in the main event. Moving through 10,000 people in both tourneys.

Thats talent.

Also take nota a certain Ausie champion Hachem is hanging around this year with a sizeable stack going into day 3.


You can not ignore consistent success in a tournament with such a large field. In what is described as a crap shoot they have found a way to play solidly and beat the field. More than once.

And finally yes.. DN is in my top three, and I am cheering for him and Hachem to make the final two. With of course Daniel bringing the title to Canada in the end.

first of all neither one of the WSOP's that raymer cashed in had a field of over 10,000 people. The WSOP has NEVER reached those hights. Also, although he is a solid player, he is nowhere near the top 5 or even 10. He could very well be at that level soon enough. There are too many leaks he is working out. I bet he would say that himself. Hell of a nice guy.

DN is also a great player. MUCH better than raymer but not sure if he is top 5 of all time on my list. If not number 5 he would be number 6. Hellmuth is in the top 5 tourny players easily. Here is my top 5 of all time:

1 Johnny Chan
2. Doyle Brunson
3. Phil Hellmuth
4. Phil Ivey
5. T.J. Cloutier/Daniel Neganeau/Dan Harrington

I just can't make up my mind on number 5.

Anyone missing Stu Ungar from the best ever list really has no idea the history of poker.

I am running off the assumption we are speaking of NL holdem. Sorry.
Stu was better than Mike matusow but had the same problem. No control.
Now if we were talking about all time best rummy players Stu would be numbers 1-5 by himself.

Do some more research on stats and then come back and tell me I have "no idea the history of poker" (if that statement is even a complete sentence).

TOURNAMENT/EVENT DATE PLACE WINNINGS
28th World Series of Poker (WSOP) 1997
No Limit Hold'em World Championship 05/15/1997 1 $1,000,000.00
21st World Series of Poker (WSOP) 1990
No Limit Hold'em World Championship 05/17/1990 9 $25,050.00
14th World Series of Poker (WSOP) 1983
Seven-Card Stud 05/01/1983 1 $110,000.00
12th World Series of Poker (WSOP) 1981
No Limit Hold'em World Championship 05/14/1981 1 $375,000.00
12th World Series of Poker (WSOP) 1981
Deuce to Seven Draw 05/01/1981 1 $95,000.00
11th World Series of Poker (WSOP) 1980
No Limit Hold'em World Championship 05/14/1980 1 $365,000.00




Ungar turned to poker in Las Vegas when his gin action dried up. He started out playing the biggest games in town. In 1980, with virtually no experience at No Limit Hold'em, Ungar entered the $10,000 buy-in World Championship event at Binion's Horseshoe for the first time. He won it. (The press dubbed him Stu "the Kid" Ungar.) The next year, (the second time he played in it), he successfully defended his title. Think about that. Ungar had entered the World Championship twice and was a two-time World Champion at the age of 25! Fittingly, he captured his third world championship (1997) the last time he played in the event.

To further understand his greatness, think about this. For years, the second largest poker tournament in the world was Amarillo Slim's Super Bowl of Poker. At that time, every great poker player attended Slim's tournaments. Like the WSOP, the main event at the Super Bowl of Poker was a $10,000 buy-in No Limit Hold'em championship. Only one man in history captured titles at both the WSOP and the Super Bowl of Poker, and that man was Stu Ungar. And he won them three times each!

You are right though, you should use his and Matusow's name in the same sentence.

I dont have the patience 2 read that but unger was the man. He was beating pros when he was literally 15 years old bieng bankrolled by the mafia.

Now: 1. Phil Ivey
2. Layne Flack
3. Mizrachi
4. Hellmuth
5. DN

Ever: 1. Ungar
2. Ivey
3. Chan
4. Flack
5. Hellmuth

You must be Layne Flacks mother or something cause I don't think he would rate himself that high.

Cloutier has won more NLHE tournaments than anyone else in the history of poker so i dont know how you people exclude him from your list.

My Elite 7

Ungar
Brunson
Cloutier
Hellmuth
Chan
Ivey
Harrington

not sure if this is the right place for this but
NOW
1. Hellmuth
2. Ivey
3. Mizrachi
4. Daniel
5. Matusow
also cant forget jeff madsen

Seems like a no brainer:
1. Tiffany Williamson
2. Chris Moneymaker
3. Aaron Kanter
4. Phil Ivey
5. Jerry (not really...just needed a 5th...I don't mean it)


seems right..not sure if #4 should be there...


E

Lol no, I am his grandmother. C'mon though, did you see the guy at the Plaza a couple years back (DN won) ? He was calling out everyone's hands every time with sick accuracy. Or, maybe he's just good when he's drunk.

Now

1. Hellmuth
2. Chan
3. Brunson
4. Ivey
5. Harrington

Ever:

1.Unger
2. Hellmuth
3. chan
4. Brunson
5. Ivey

1. Hellmuth
2. Ivey
3. Daniel
4. Chan
5. Grinder

Hellmuth definitly doesnt get the respect on this forum.

For those who say Harrington I think you are very wrong. I dont think Dan would even put himslef in the top 15 let alone the top 5.

I think every all-time list should have Doyle Brunson on it and every current list should have Phil Ivey and John Juanda on it.

I would love to hear from Daniel on this one. Here's my now list:

1) Allen Cunningham (this one is a no-brainer, just ask DN)
2) Daniel Negreanu
3) Phil Ivey
4) John Juanda
5) Sammy Farha

The best player ever is without a doubt Stu Ungar.

1) Ivey
2) Brunson
3) hellmuth
4) Negreanu
5) Gold...... haha jus kiddin its cunnigham

those are the top 5 present day players

Brunson is still great, but his age and fatigue are starting to become factors. I'd sooner put Mizrachi in the top 5 today than I would Brunson.

Whoever put Sammy Farha in there must be mentally retarded. Farha is one of the best PLO CASH GAME players. He's capable at the other games, but at the highest levels, doesn't regularly succeed there.

He is definitely not one of the best 5, 25 or maybe even 50 top tournament professionals in the game today.

you dont give sammy enough credit he definetly isnt top 5 but he is good hey while we are on this topic how bout top internet players

1. TexasLimitKing
2. Samgrizzle
3. JohnnyBax
4. Gank
5. Phil Ivey when he focuses

Sammy is a great player. He's a decent tournament player. When you're talking about top tournament players, unless it's Omaha, his name will never come up.

A "GREAT" tournament player will have more than 10 major tourney cashes. That's all Sammy has.

http://www.cardplayer.com/players/results/Sam_Farha/5277

Compare that to Mizrachi who already has 18 cashes this year alone.

Sammy is not a tournament professional. It's as simple as that.

I think a better list would be a Limit tournament list:

1. Ted Forrest
2. Phil Ivey
3. Chip Reese
4. Doyle Brunson
5. ummmmmmmm, Giant stone john wilkes booth?

you don't even have david brenyamine in there? in my eyes he is one of the best online players, the number of times i have seen him with 150k+ on 40k buy in tables is amazing.