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FCP Poker Forum > Poker Strategy Forum > Limit Texas Hold'em
A. Holmberg
PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: Bet The Pot)

Preflop: Hero is CO with [Ks], [Qh].
5 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (5 SB) [9c], [Ad], [9d] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (2.50 BB) [3d] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

River: (4.50 BB) [5h] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 6.50 BB



My question is, do I raise bluffers on the end?
mrdannyg
QUOTE (A. Holmberg @ Saturday, July 15th, 2006, 1:01 PM) *
PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: Bet The Pot)

Preflop: Hero is CO with [Ks], [Qh].
5 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (5 SB) [9c], [Ad], [9d] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (2.50 BB) [3d] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

River: (4.50 BB) [5h] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 6.50 BB
My question is, do I raise bluffers on the end?


in general, that's a tough question, but in this case you have the "nut no pair," so you're beating any bluff. any non-bluffing hand probably calls the river anyways.

your hand is strong enough to be beating a missed diamond draw or a complete bluff, so calling there is fine, if you're pretty certain he's bluffing.
BudBundy
I am betting that flop.You are representing the ace with the preflop raise.If he calls he probably has an ace or slowplaying 9.Or he is on a FD.Without any of these he is folding %90 of the time.So If he calls our flop raise and checks the turn i am bet-folding to charge the FD or folding to a turn lead.
Actuary
QUOTE (BudBundy @ Saturday, July 15th, 2006, 10:10 AM) *
I am betting that flop.You are representing the ace with the preflop raise.If he calls he probably has an ace or slowplaying 9.Or he is on a FD.Without any of these he is folding %90 of the time.So If he calls our flop raise and checks the turn i am bet-folding to charge the FD or folding to a turn lead.


I concur

**************

I see no reason to check the flop only to call down anyway.
Moneyball16
I agree with Bud here but I was wondering something. Against a bet monkey, what is the optimal way to play this? Playing it the same as the hero, betting the flop, checking behind on turn, and calling an river ui, or other?
Zach6668
Checking the flop is ****ing disgusting.

Bet flop, bet turn, check behind on the river.

Isn't position a wonderful thing?
GoingBusto
QUOTE (A. Holmberg @ Saturday, July 15th, 2006, 10:01 AM) *
My question is, do I raise bluffers on the end?


Zach's line is how I normally play it. I think if you're going to raise this anywhere, you are better served to raise the turn than the river. It looks like you checked the flop with a flush draw and hit it on the turn. I think you have a lot of fold equity there against a small pair.

There's really no reason to get terribly tricky with the hand tho, so bet, bet, check is standard.

GB
dingas
The check on the flop is a good play. Because sometimes you will want to check the nuts on the flop too. And if you never check with nothing, people will get suspicious. Since players generally expect the preflop raiser to bet, when you check it makes them think 'maybe he's slow playing' -- so they will be cautious and you can make a turn bluff-raise. But if you don't sometimes have the nuts and sometimes nothing when you make this play, it won't work against observant opponents.

That's how I would play this particular hand. Raise the turn and fold to a 3-bet/ river bet u.i.
JSHamm
QUOTE (dingas @ Friday, July 21st, 2006, 5:19 AM) *
The check on the flop is a good play. Because sometimes you will want to check the nuts on the flop too. And if you never check with nothing, people will get suspicious. Since players generally expect the preflop raiser to bet, when you check it makes them think 'maybe he's slow playing' -- so they will be cautious and you can make a turn bluff-raise. But if you don't sometimes have the nuts and sometimes nothing when you make this play, it won't work against observant opponents.

That's how I would play this particular hand. Raise the turn and fold to a 3-bet/ river bet u.i.


So let's get this straight...You're checking the flop with K high basically getting noooo information out there and giving a free card to a flush draw, which if they have they get on the turn at which point you're raising it? What if they have at the least a weak ace? Maybe they slow down but at this level they rarely toss it. You're playing the hand backwards by being passive early and when the board coordinates getting aggressive when the SB starts showing some aggression. Just seems to me you're throwing more money in for less information with this line.
Of course, it's Friday and I'm not drunk, yet.
Moneyball16
QUOTE (dingas @ Friday, July 21st, 2006, 7:19 AM) *
The check on the flop is a good play. Because sometimes you will want to check the nuts on the flop too. And if you never check with nothing, people will get suspicious. Since players generally expect the preflop raiser to bet, when you check it makes them think 'maybe he's slow playing' -- so they will be cautious and you can make a turn bluff-raise. But if you don't sometimes have the nuts and sometimes nothing when you make this play, it won't work against observant opponents.

That's how I would play this particular hand. Raise the turn and fold to a 3-bet/ river bet u.i.


Against observant opponents I agree that you have to reframe from giving away the value of your hand, but I think the best way to do this is to bet this flop with KQo and AA and 99.
roadhawg
i think you need to be aggressive on the flop and bet anyway no matter what comes out. when i am playing 1-2 or 2-4 i almost always bet the flop if i hit or not (even if i have the nut), and be prepared to bet the turn no matter what. because for some reason i noticed that people will almost always call the flop bet but fold on the turn. sometimes i need to slap my wrist and make sure i bet the turn because it is weird how often people will call the flop and fold the turn. i dont like your play because you didnt bet the flop and you just called down the whole way, i see this happen a lot and i think it is a big mistake because if you are going to call down anyway you might as well have bet.
i would have bet the flop and the turn, if i was raised at any point i fold. one thing i must stress in the lower limits is dont get Stubborn, i see this way too much and it will kill you in the long run. i see someone bet with K Q on an A99 board and get raised and still call, then call the whole way down no matter what.
overall you want to be aggressive but dont be afraid to fold if someone raises.
Actuary
QUOTE (roadhawg @ Friday, July 21st, 2006, 8:38 PM) *
iyou just called down the whole way, i see this happen a lot and i think it is a big mistake because if you are going to call down anyway you might as well have bet.


certainly that is not true in all cases, even in lower limit.
the ole "if you would call a bet, you should bet yourself " is oversimplified.
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