This thread probably has zero potential.

Anyway, nonbelievers say believers are blind, believers say its the other way around. So who is right?

Present your reasons for believing the other party is wrong. Stupid reasons will be ridiculed and dismissed.

Obviously I think believers are blind. They blindly follow a book that was written ~1400 years ago 600 years after the main character lived. There is evidence of stories in this book being altered, yet some believers take every word to be true. Also, there are many inconsistencies in the book which modern day science can show is overwhelmingly false. Also, I can't think of one advancement society has made in the past 1000 years that religion hasn't tried to hold backk.

Ridicule me if you think I'm stupid. Argue with me if you think I kinda make sense, but not as much as you. And support me/help present a better arguement (Canada), if you agree with me.

Where is Pat Buchanan when you need him?

I think blind people are blind. But I could be mistaken.

DING DING DING

Probably burning a little homosexual ethnic kid at the stake. Shouldn't you be joining him?



Clever...

i dont think anyone is blind just misunderstood. if "non-believers" felt the love that "believers" felt i believe that they would become Christians in a second. so nobody is blind, just hasn't felt the love if that made any gramatical sense.

actually, it's you who hasn't felt the love of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I feel pretty sad for you that you confuse your emotions with divine intervention, when in fact I can tell you from personal experience that there is only one god who loves us, and his name is the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I went to a religious school until grade 9. Went to church and bought into the whole idea of god. It was around grade 9 that I started questioning the sensibility of the whole religion idea. I feel much happier now than I did back when I had bought into the church.

Screech,

you sure spend a lot of posts on this topic. ( atheism, etc )

does it matter that much to you if some people believe in God ?

what is your motive ?

Dont post much anymore here b/c theres really little point but i liked this post for the deeper purposes

When people try to forcefully "find" somethign they rarely do. You dont find happiness by drinking, drugs and so forth. You can have fun doing those but they dont bring you happiness...Just like with God. You dont sary a prayer or 2 and bam your cool with God and life is dandy.

Life is about finding out who you are. I could go into some deep philosophical reasons that I found in Hamlet but i wont but the short version is this:

We all follow something whether it be a loved one, a parent and so forth. Most everything we follow is flawed and therefore making us flawed as a result of following it. The idea of God is a God who is perfect. By following this creature you allow for the possibility of perfection. Obviously nobody attains this perfection but the idea is there. Some will sincerely follow this "Ghost" and will in the process have God reveal themselves. Some will go through the motions and find nothing.


But just realize we all follow something.

Boredom and practice for when I get in real life drunk conversations with friends.



Good post Matt. Do you think that you need to believe in god to find true happiness or to find out who you are?

well yes and no screech.

I think you can be content to follow a flawed "ghost" ( i use ghost as thats the metaphor in hamlet). The problem I see is when you start to examine what you are following you will almost always be disappointed when u see the flaws.

Thats why when you meet that special girl they say you "see past her flaws" b/c if you dwell on them youll obviously not be happy.

Whether you can find true happiness without God I dont know. I think following flawed ghosts will bring disappointment but who knows...I havent searched life enough yet to make an absolute statement like yes or no so for now hopefully maybe will suffice.

I personally find contentment in a wide range of things from getting tattoos to having an drink while playin poker. Are there obvious flaws in these of course. Doesnt mean im gonna avoid living life.

Like I said, the concept of God is a being that is not flawed. So I find inspiration knowing that I could live up to those expectations one day..not realisitic but yeah you get the point...

I know this is a lot of rambling but its been some soul searchin Ive done as of late

I don't think you need god to bring about a feeling of purpose or contentment or whatever. If you want to be at peace with yourself, the easiest way is to just mediate, or reflect. You don't have to believe in an almighty being.

true...though i think if u mediate on most things in life and truly examine them you will find the flaws that exist in the things you follow

im not going to hide the fact that i have doubted my religion before. in this world filled with things trying to take it down who wouldnt?
But each time i have felt doubt i have gone to the minister, my parents, my brother, my Christian friends, read books about it, and each time I have done this i have felt more happy than before.

If you mean things like coke and drinking, yeah. But it also helps you come to peace with everything and realize that everything is right just as is.



My point was that you don't need religion for happiness. Not that only nonbelievers can be happy, or vice versa. You probably didn't interpret it that way, but just to make sure others dont.

The second you start doubting your religion you only go talk to people that are 100% committed to making you feel good about it again. Have you ever considered reading up on other religions/beliefs when you're doubting the validity of your own? Or are you happy letting people pull you back in each time?


As for me, I find happiness in life by being happy. It's pretty simple, actually.


interesting stuff

FYP.

It's essentially the same concept going back and forth. The believers feel the need to bring people into their belief because as they understand it, unbelievers are condemned for eternity.

And the non believers see religion/s as a method of mind control, a way to control the masses (by fear mainly), and they themselves wish to liberate the believers so they can, in turn, be free.

it's a little deeper than that. religious belief has served its purpose and is well past its usefulness (if it ever had any) and is now holding humanity back from maturing and progressing socially on a global scale. perhaps even more critically it is horrendously skewing an objective outlook of what is best for the long term survival of our planet.

interesting. this could be true. i think a lot of it boils downt to one group thinks the other group is wasting their lives because of they way they think.

Thus the disdain. Matt hasn't shown up in awhile, good to see him. It's the closest he has ever sounded to how I believe.

I've been there. Grew up a full blown happy-clappy. Felt the 'love'.

Wait to you feel the freedom and fear of thinking for yourself.

Clarity is a rush

no reason to show up to go around in circles here...and this is how I has always been lois. I have always had disdain for organized religion that you tried to group me with...


everyday at work I drive past the "Christian Life Center" and i realize what I am takin a break from even being involved with the nondenominational church i went to

May I ask why is do you say blindly follow? Not all of us just accept the bible as literal "well it says 7 days so it must be 7 days". Some of us ask questions, some of us actually search for years for answers to questions, not just looking at the english wording used today but also the original hebrew, greek, and other lanugages used at the time. Also you use the word "religion" a little too loosely, I don't recall the Buddists holding stuff back? Are you talking about all religions or just one in paticular. But I don't recall any religious outcry against the cure for polio? So thats one anyway.

I believe, the person sitting immediately to the left of the dealer is known as the small blind and the person immediately to the left of the small blind is known as the big blind...

hope that helps!

i agree, religion holds back humanity in a lot of ways.

Thing is, present a problem to every individual, and be sure to include the chance of enternity in hell and they will probably follow you just because they are afraid. Sad, but true. (I was one of them)

wow... this is exactly what I've been trying to say to crow, canada, ect, ect... who continually come to these threads to let people know how stupid they are. I guess that could be fun, but it makes zero sense to me.



Can you explain this sentence. I don't understand what you're saying.

I also have a major dislike of organized religion... It's bad.

I'm not geting dragged in..lol

Crow,

your quote is very telling. Christians (I can't speak for all religions or all Christians for that matter) care infinitely less about the survival of the planet than the afterlife of the soul. It's so beyond comprehnesion that one would concern themselves with what happens to this rock above what happens to their neighbors soul, much less their own.. in the eyes of most Christians. I'm not critisizing your view in as much as I'm just trying to point out a fundamental gap in priorities/thought process. Obviously, this is not news to you as you probably wonder why I could careless about global warming.

Justice.

so i take it you expect jesus to return very soon then

are you implying the world is ending soon?

I don't expect the return soon.. or long time..don't have any idea.

potentially getting irreversably screwed up soon

I think that if my way of belief is true than humanity itself is in control of whether or not Christ comes back. God knows, but being that ultimately our choices control our destiny, we are the driving force behind what happens. I mean what, at the very smallest level is the main reason for the environment being as bad as it is? Greed, which equals sin. I have been doing a little research on the steps we have taken backward in the past, oh, since Bush took over and it's appaling. Now, if the greed were to stop or at the very least become a little less, we could make strides, real strides away from where we are now. It's up to humanity as a whole.


God says that if there is only one soul left to be saved he will not come back. That's a big statement, a powerful statement- if Christ comes back that would mean that humanity had hit a point where God had seen no one redeemable.

another designer religion?

Brvheart...On my way to work i drive by some big church/building that is called the "Christian Life Center"...not even kidding at all about the name..I look at that and realize how institutionalized people try to make religion.

Its not near as bad at the non-denominational that i go to but I just really needed to step back from it all so that I didnt get burnt out on it all.

What i love is that I did take the time to learn to study the bible on my own so I can do it at a high level on my own and not rely on others to teach me.




I think if people lived this way nothin would ever get done. Sad part is every generation about 100 books get written about why Jesus should be returning this generation.

Frankly its not something anybody should really even worry about b/c the bible says He will come back at a time only He knows. So why stress about it? Just live your life and when its time its time

No, just biblical. Did you read the rest of the paragraph or just a snippet?





Congratulations on your moments of clarity Matt. Everything you just said made me smile.

This made me think of 2 things:

1) A lot of books say a lot of different things. Why do you believe a book that was written so long ago (~1400 years) so after the fact (~600 years). Er, nevermind answering that question, I don't care to hear the answer.

2) When it's time it's time. Any idea of why when god would chose a certain time? Who are the lucky (or unlucky humans) on Earth during this time, and why did god 'choose' those people (all-knowing, right?) to be there.

Whew.

Actually, I'm not looking for answers to that last questin either. Im just bored and these were the first thougths that came to mind when I read your post.

The bible is rather vague as to when Christ comes back, I believe purposefully in that it requires you to be prepared at all times, as much as you possibly know to be. The only clear promise God makes is that as long as there is one seeking soul to be saved, he will not send his son back.

As far as who will be here when the trumpet sounds- biblically it will all happen in the blink of an eye, the saved will be caught up into the clouds and those left behind to deal with the fire and the brimstone will be sinners, or those who deserve it. No pure soul will have to witness the destruction of earth, they will not have to see that horror.

How's it going, Screech?

Lois and what you dont realize is that I havent changed...I have always said i was against that and always for learning to study on your own...but i also always have preached makin sure you have the right sources aound you to understand a book from 2000 years ago

Come on, man. Let's not ruin the moment.

get a room