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Jordan
3 handed

I have $450ish, villian has me covered, around $850.

All I know, is every table I'm on is nitty and I'm playing a lot of hands, but most are won on the flop.

Read on villian is simple. He has min raised every flop with a set or better...then leads turns decent. but he's a nit, and I hate nits. This is probably my leak...not in this hand or aynthing, but just that I can't stand nits..

anyways.

hero: 4 icon_suit_heart.gif 3 icon_suit_heart.gif so i'm in love in the bb
villian (btn) bets $16, sb folds, hero calls $12 mas.

Flop A icon_suit_diamond.gif 7 icon_suit_heart.gif 5 icon_suit_heart.gif

hero bets $25, villian raises to $50, hero pushes

- Jordan
KappaKid83
Its an aggressive line to take in this situation, but with the draws you have you are proly willing to play the hand out to the river so why not stuff when your odds are best. Not horrible in my opinion.

JEFF
PoppinFresh
Uhhh...just call the minraise?

Unless I'm misunderstanding your read he probably has a set here? Or is he minraising a lot but he also minraises with sets?

Also if you're going to 3-bet the flop I would make it smaller unless you push a lot in these spots, a push looks more like a draw and less like a set to me.
spikymarv99
It's probably because I'm a huge LAG, but I push this all day too. If you had 200 BB then I would make a normal raise. The only hand you don't want calling you is a bigger flush draw and I don't think villan can make that call. Standard LAG play. Just make sure you do this with a made hand and not just draws.

Are you posting because you think a call or a normal raise would be better??
Jordan
QUOTE (PoppinFresh @ Tuesday, July 4th, 2006, 10:51 PM) *
Uhhh...just call the minraise?

Unless I'm misunderstanding your read he probably has a set here? Or is he minraising a lot but he also minraises with sets?

Also if you're going to 3-bet the flop I would make it smaller unless you push a lot in these spots, a push looks more like a draw and less like a set to me.


i didn't wanna call and have to fold turn..i wanted to push my draw :x

he either had (well it's 3 handed sooo) set, AK/AQ/AJ type hands, two pair, or maybe a PP and he was seeing where he was at against me since I been most agg.

I thought with a push i'd have the most fold equity as opposed to going to 200 and then having half my stack in and having a tough time OOP on the turn if I go UI.

I guess a big reason I push is cause I don't care if I'm called here or not, but I'm ready to gamble either way...lol :x

marv, just posting to see what others think. i find this standardish for me and my overall "poker situation".

- Jordan
PoppinFresh
QUOTE (KappaKid83 @ Wednesday, July 5th, 2006, 2:51 AM) *
Its an aggressive line to take in this situation, but with the draws you have you are proly willing to play the hand out to the river so why not stuff when your odds are best. Not horrible in my opinion.

JEFF


I don't understand this, 3-betting is good if we have reasonable fold equity, but if our read is that villain is very strong it's much better to just call and get the money in if we hit
spikymarv99
QUOTE (PoppinFresh @ Tuesday, July 4th, 2006, 11:51 PM) *
Uhhh...just call the minraise?

Unless I'm misunderstanding your read he probably has a set here? Or is he minraising a lot but he also minraises with sets?

Also if you're going to 3-bet the flop I would make it smaller unless you push a lot in these spots, a push looks more like a draw and less like a set to me.


A set or A-K puts hero in the same situation. He has the same outs. I like the push because he has a monster draw here.... villan can easily get off his hand if he completes... I wouldn't give him the opportunity. Hero has 17 outs vs. a set with fold equity. My LAGish tendancies could be making me bias, but this seems pretty standard. Just calling puts him in a tough spot out of position on the turn.
PoppinFresh
QUOTE (Jordan @ Wednesday, July 5th, 2006, 2:54 AM) *
i didn't wanna call and have to fold turn..i wanted to push my draw :x

he either had (well it's 3 handed sooo) set, AK/AQ/AJ type hands, two pair, or maybe a PP and he was seeing where he was at against me since I been most agg.

I thought with a push i'd have the most fold equity as opposed to going to 200 and then having half my stack in and having a tough time OOP on the turn if I go UI.

I guess a big reason I push is cause I don't care if I'm called here or not, but I'm ready to gamble either way...lol :x

marv, just posting to see what others think. i find this standardish for me and my overall "poker situation".

- Jordan


Ah, from your original read it seemed like he was only raising with a set or better...a 3-bet is very standard here.

I still think making it 150 to 200 is the better play, you are pot committed if he pushes the flop or if he just calls and you see a turn either way, and I think it looks more like a set and less like a draw.


QUOTE (spikymarv99 @ Wednesday, July 5th, 2006, 2:58 AM) *
A set or A-K puts hero in the same situation. He has the same outs. I like the push because he has a monster draw here.... villan can easily get off his hand if he completes... I wouldn't give him the opportunity. Hero is has 13 outs vs. a set with fold equity. But then again, I'm a donk.


Very different vs. a set and AK, you have to consider redraws. Hero is about a 60/40 dog to a set, but around a 56/44 favorite to AK. In addition to this, hero is almost certainly going to get less action out of AK if he does hit
Jordan
QUOTE (PoppinFresh @ Tuesday, July 4th, 2006, 10:58 PM) *
Ah, from your original read it seemed like he was only raising with a set or better...a 3-bet is very standard here.

I still think making it 150 to 200 is the better play, you are pot committed if he pushes the flop or if he just calls and you see a turn either way, and I think it looks more like a set and less like a draw.


meh, i just wouldn't like getting called and not hitting on the turn and be out of position and still feel compelled to get all in on turn.

what would you do it you take your line and are playing OOP UI on turn?

- Jordan
PoppinFresh
QUOTE (Jordan @ Wednesday, July 5th, 2006, 3:01 AM) *
meh, i just wouldn't like getting called and not hitting on the turn and be out of position and still feel compelled to get all in on turn.

what would you do it you take your line and are playing OOP UI on turn?

- Jordan


I would 3-bet to an amount that doesn't give anything but another combo draw odds...so let's say we make it 200.

If he's good I don't think he should be calling with any hands except maybe the aforementioned combo draw, he should push or fold...but if he does call I'm probably assuming he's a donk and checking the turn(I don't think we have FE) praying that he gives me a free card. If he pushes I'd call

In reality there is probably very little difference between 3-betting to a smaller amount and pushing, that's just not how most people play sets though and I actually think a smaller bet looks scarier and less like a draw and therefore has more fold equity.

I may be off base with that
spikymarv99
QUOTE (PoppinFresh @ Wednesday, July 5th, 2006, 12:00 AM) *
Ah, from your original read it seemed like he was only raising with a set or better...a 3-bet is very standard here.

I still think making it 150 to 200 is the better play, you are pot committed if he pushes the flop or if he just calls and you see a turn either way, and I think it looks more like a set and less like a draw.
Very different vs. a set and AK, you have to consider redraws. Hero is about a 60/40 dog to a set, but around a 56/44 favorite to AK. In addition to this, hero is almost certainly going to get less action out of AK if he does hit


In villans eyes, if he puts hero on a draw, his set and A-K become the same. This puts hero in a very good spot to push this. I don't mind the set calling and I love A-K calling. But like I mentioned earlier this play would help alot if hero makes the same play with his made hands.
Jordan
QUOTE (spikymarv99 @ Tuesday, July 4th, 2006, 11:13 PM) *
In villans eyes, if he puts hero on a draw, his set and A-K become the same. This puts hero in a very good spot to push this. I don't mind the set calling and I love A-K calling. But like I mentioned earlier this play would help alot if hero makes the same play with his made hands.


im a cronic fast player.

to the point where I really have to sometimes slow down, just to slow down.

- Jordan
Scott3705
This is pretty standard at a nitty table 3 HANDED table. You're pounding on this guy continuously to be able to make this gamble and hopefully break hiim.
spikymarv99
QUOTE (Jordan @ Wednesday, July 5th, 2006, 12:35 AM) *
im a cronic fast player.

to the point where I really have to sometimes slow down, just to slow down.

- Jordan


That's how you beat 6 max though. I have to catch myself sometimes too. I'm playing for about an hour and then I look at my stats for that session and I never think I'm being that aggresive. It's actually a good thing though. At least that's what I have been told.

Another thing about your hand... is villan competent? He has to know that he has been showing down huge hands when he has min raised, yet your still pushing on him depsite his show of strength. How did the hand turn out? Did villan have A-A?
Jordan
QUOTE (spikymarv99 @ Wednesday, July 5th, 2006, 7:10 PM) *
That's how you beat 6 max though. I have to catch myself sometimes too. I'm playing for about an hour and then I look at my stats for that session and I never think I'm being that aggresive. It's actually a good thing though. At least that's what I have been told.

Another thing about your hand... is villan competent? He has to know that he has been showing down huge hands when he has min raised, yet your still pushing on him depsite his show of strength. How did the hand turn out? Did villan have A-A?


He had A7, yet I turned flush and held.

weeeeeeeeeeeeee

- Jordan
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