Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Playing Against The Shortstack (hand 2)
FCP Poker Forum > Poker Strategy Forum > No Limit Texas Hold'em Cash Games
mkeller3086
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)

BB ($11.67)
UTG ($9.60)
Hero ($30.35)
Button ($7.75)
SB ($23.45)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A icon_suit_diamond.gif , 9 icon_suit_heart.gif . SB posts a blind of $0.10.
1 fold, Hero raises to $1, Button calls $1, 1 fold, BB calls $0.75.

Flop: ($3.10) 9 icon_suit_club.gif , T icon_suit_diamond.gif , 5 icon_suit_club.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2.5, Button raises to $6.75 (all in) BB folds, Hero calls $4.25.

Like I said previously, people open up their raising range with short stacks. I feel like I have to call getting > 2-1
nomad_monad
I've looked over a few of your posts, and here are a couple of things I can suggest:

1) Stop raising with Ax where x is less than J unless you are in late position and the table is at least somewhat tight. If you hit your A and get a call you're in a tough spot to play when your kicker is mediocre. If you hit TP with your X and the table is somewhat loose with people calling with overs and such, your TP usually goes to waste anyways by the river. The real value in raising with Ax, especially offsuit, comes from being able to continuation bet from position against opponents capable of folding the flop, while still having some value to fall back on - but that fallback value isn't much. Typically, the fallback value comes against someone who is calling you down on a draw.

2) Pick solid starting hands when a shortstack has position on you. If they decide to play, you're not bluffing them out of the pot most of the time, and like you've noticed, their pushing range expands. But this also makes them harder to read and this problem is further compounded when you act from positional disadvantage. Make it easier on yourself by not having to call a shortie's all-in with just middle pair.

Remember, in a ring game, it is nice if you can get the shortie's stack with a mediocre-to-good holding, but what you really want more than that is for the shortie to be gone so someone else can sit down with a full buyin. Either that, or have the shortie double up to a decent chipstack (and not through you, obviously). Reason being, if you're trying to play correctly, the shortie can often constrict your hand playing range since his stack size cuts down your implied odds.
mkeller3086
QUOTE (nomad_monad @ Wednesday, July 5th, 2006, 11:30 AM) *
I've looked over a few of your posts, and here are a couple of things I can suggest:

1) Stop raising with Ax where x is less than J unless you are in late position and the table is at least somewhat tight. If you hit your A and get a call you're in a tough spot to play when your kicker is mediocre. If you hit TP with your X and the table is somewhat loose with people calling with overs and such, your TP usually goes to waste anyways by the river. The real value in raising with Ax, especially offsuit, comes from being able to continuation bet from position against opponents capable of folding the flop, while still having some value to fall back on - but that fallback value isn't much. Typically, the fallback value comes against someone who is calling you down on a draw.

2) Pick solid starting hands when a shortstack has position on you. If they decide to play, you're not bluffing them out of the pot most of the time, and like you've noticed, their pushing range expands. But this also makes them harder to read and this problem is further compounded when you act from positional disadvantage. Make it easier on yourself by not having to call a shortie's all-in with just middle pair.

Remember, in a ring game, it is nice if you can get the shortie's stack with a mediocre-to-good holding, but what you really want more than that is for the shortie to be gone so someone else can sit down with a full buyin. Either that, or have the shortie double up to a decent chipstack (and not through you, obviously). Reason being, if you're trying to play correctly, the shortie can often constrict your hand playing range since his stack size cuts down your implied odds.


very good post. i appreciate it.

did you notice that this was a 6 max game that was playing 5 handed at the time? this means i'm actually two off the button when i make this raise.

do you still disagee with me opening there?
nomad_monad
QUOTE (mkeller3086 @ Wednesday, July 5th, 2006, 6:25 PM) *
did you notice that this was a 6 max game that was playing 5 handed at the time? this means i'm actually one off the button when i make this raise.

do you still disagee with me opening there?


oops, no i missed that originally.

normally, raising with Ax is something i would do there as well. but i might play a little bit tighter with the shortstack behind me on the button. kind of depends on how often he calls raises. if not that often, then i raise and buy the button. if his calling standards are looser, then i wait for a better hand. true, if he's looser preflop that means that middle pair here is likelier to be good, but i'm expecting him to do something just like this when he calls a raise, so i don't mind waiting for a better hand - probably something closer to early position raising standards. in some ways it's kind of like playing against a maniac - the size of the shortie's stack makes him kind of play like one. since his postflop fold frequency is going to be less, if you want his stack you typically need to get it with a trappier style, rather than bleeding him down a bit with pure aggression that in turn sets up a big hand. it doesn't mean that you don't raise - it just means that the "trapping" comes in the form of not necessarily hewing to the expectation that you will loosen your raising standards in LP.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2012 Invision Power Services, Inc.