First let me say - I kind of enjoy soccer - so i'm not hating on it 100% - it is occasionally exciting, and I love betting parlays on this shit, so it's been a fun world cup for me.

BUT - Sportscenter just said that at the end of this opening round that multiple teams can be tied in points, goals, head to head etc...and that if this occurs - the teams that advance to the next round are decided by drawing out of a hat! WHAT!? Out of a fucking hat? I'm sorry but I just lost a ton of respect for this tournament. That is the dumbest thing i've ever heard.

Has this happened before? Or is it one of those - never will happen, but just in case. Because I can't imagine it being decided that way.

I don't think so. At least I hope not.

this has never happened and all of the tie breakers would have to be tied and it would only apply to that group. I highly doubt that it would happen.

From what I understand, there are 6 tiebreakers - not sure what they are but this is what they said. But with something like 80-90% of the games ending between 0-0 and 2-2 I can imagine 2 or more teams having the same exact goal totals etc.

I can imagine the world (and countrys involved) would be pretty shocked for a team with the same record/points/goals etc to be denied advancing because their name wasn't picked out of the hat.

How can their not be a playoff? Even if it was just a shootout, something!

It even goes down to number of yellow cards issued etc. I'm pretty sure it's never gone down to drawing out of a hat.

You're making a mountain out of a mole hill without knowing the full facts. You should really learn to get all the information before coming out with comments like 'I'm sorry but I just lost a ton of respect for this tournament'

I nicely asked for the full facts chief, thanks for the comment though. I don't care if it comes down to Shots on Goal with their left foot - if it comes to a tie you don't draw out of a fucking hat to decide who advances. Thats ridiculous.

Do a few calculations about the chances of it happening. Then you'll realise why they can do it.

E.g the table looks like this:

Team 1 - 9 points
Team 2 - 4 points
Team 3 - 4 points
Team 4 - 0 points

First Team 2 and Team 3 have to draw. Team 2 will have to have beaten team 4 by the same number of goals as team 3 did and will have lost to team 1 by the same number of goals. Then they will have had been given the same number of yellow cards.

This also isn't a "soccer" thing...it's a "World Cup" thing. No tournies in the USA, for instance, end like that.

It would be nearly impossible to get down to drawing out of a hat.

1. Points must be tied (possible)
2. Head to Head must be a tie (possible)
3. Goal Differential must be tied (alot harder than you think)
4. Yellow Cards must be the same (Impossible)

Thats good at least..I'd expect the US to have their head on straight :-)



Impossible? You can't truly believe that.

I dunno, I suppose they do it because organising an extra match/shootout/whatever isn't a simple matter during the middle of a world cup. The logistics would make it extremely difficult.

I have to agree though, it would suck if it came to that.

I most certainly can believe that.

Fact is, it's not going to happen.

FFS..... It has never happened. Why are you whining about this. The chances of it ever happening are so remote its not even worth considering.

If you really have lost respect for the tournament on the chance that this may happen, you really need to get your head sorted.

As regards to the US having their heads on straight. They can't even name a baseball tournament properly. E.g. The WORLD series.... really, just how many other countries play in this WORLD series.

As for using Yoda as your name.... not the most suitable I think.

So you believe, that it's impossible, for two teams with the same goals scored, differential etc to have the same number of yellow cards ?

I just want to make sure I'm reading this right.



Your really an annoying prick. But let me address your drivel.

I'm not whining, I'm pointing out a rule that I think is kind of ridiculous, albeit difficult to happen. And guess what, I'm not the only one that thinks so!

As to complaining about the world series being named what it is, are you mentally retarded? It's just a name who cares? Also, off topic.

In conclusion, your not invited to my threads anymore asshole. Have a good one.

Of course it isn't impossible.

But seeing as it has never happened since the tournament began over 50 years ago and the chance of it ever happening are extremely remote.

WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO MAKE A BIG DEAL OUT OF THIS ????????

Why not concentrate on something a little more concerning?. I dunno....Like your common sense maybe ?

It's a valid question and a valid concern, and "over 50 years" is a bit melodramatic considering it only takes place every 4 years. So stop being a trouble stirring prick and find another thread to ruin. How's that for common sense?

Your really an annoying prick. But let me address your drivel.

I assume you mean you're. I'm glad I'm annoying to you. I would hate to think someone of your lack of common sense and intelligence actually liked me.

I'm not whining, I'm pointing out a rule that I think is kind of ridiculous, albeit difficult to happen. And guess what, I'm not the only one that thinks so

Really, I can't see anyone else in this thread saying it's ridiculous. Someone said it would 'suck'. I can guarantee, that if you asked anyone with the intelligence higher than plankton, they would be saying the same as me.

As to complaining about the world series being named what it is, are you mentally retarded? It's just a name who cares? Also, off topic.

Why is this off topic?. I'm comparing things that according to you are stupid. I think naming a competition that only has one country involved as the 'World Series' if anything, is more stupid.


In conclusion, your not invited to my threads anymore asshole

I didn't realise you had to be invited to threads, Is this your rule?

Anyway, aside from this one know-it-all prick with the grammar police badge and broom stick up his ass who doesn't think it's okay to question a rule. What does everyone else think? Possible? A reasonable rule? I honestly don't see it happening, but certainly possible. And definitely not fair.

You are accusing me of being melodramatic!!!!! You're taking the piss surely.
I'm not the person who is saying 'I'm sorry but I just lost a ton of respect for this tournament' over something that has never happened and is very unlikely to ever happen. Grow up FFS.

Are you still here? Stop crying, you don't have to read it.

"if the two teams are tied with the same number of points and the same goal difference, the next criterion is who scored more goals. If that’s tied, the next thing is who won their head-to-head game. If that game ended in a draw, there’s a coin toss to see who goes through."

thats from a reporter

so we have:
1. Points
2. Goal diff
3. Most goals
4. Encounter winner
5. Coin toss

tho i dont think coin toss would ever come up

I'm not the one crying, you seem to be over the 'unfair rule'.

I'm merely trying to install some common sense into you. However, the words wall and head spring to mind.

I'd prefer if you don't try to "install" anything into me, thanks for the thought though.



Sportscenter explained it can be more then 2 teams, not only 2. And they would literally draw country names out of a hat to decide who advanced. The question I pose, is not whether it is likely(it is obviously not). But if it were to occur, is it fair?

Your call. Continue to have no common sense then.

Obviously posing valid questions is not a part of your definition of common sense, so I won't try bothering to get through your thick headed skull.

Ok, I'll ask a 'Valid' question according to your criteria.


Should I ever get on a plane and fly again?

There's a 6 million to 1 chance that it will crash.

No, you should kill yourself. Thanks for playing. Apparently common sense can't include hypothetical situations either even though this is a FAR more likely event.

The reason I'm bothering to respond, is to try and get something into your thick skull.

The answer to your initial question of 'Is this fair', is obviously no. But to ask a question about something that has never happened and is very unlikely to happen is pretty pointless.

To say 'I'm sorry but I just lost a ton of respect for this tournament' is just ridiculous.




No, you should kill yourself.

Your maturity is now really starting to show.

Apparently common sense can't include hypothetical situations either even though this is a FAR more likely event.

Really, please tell me what the odds are then.

Ohhh look at this, he finally gets to the question at hand. Nice work. Agree to disagree then. I don't care if people disagree I just put it out there for discussion as it's the first i've heard of it.

But I still can't believe you would say it's pointless to discuss something that is very unlikely to happen. THAT is ridiculous.

You know what, I haven't the strength to continue this any more.

There's a saying that sums you up perfectly......

'Never argue with idiots. They'll just bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience'.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out

1) Yoda...you're being a bit of an ***.

2) When they run out of relevant stats to use to break a tie,and arbitrary decision is as good as any. Yes, it would suck losing by a coin toss, but for 2 teams with identical stats in all categories, do you have a better suggestion?

3) MLS uses coin toss as the 7th tier breaker in their championship tournament, so your US has their "head on straight" comment is not only idiotic and inflammatory, but ignorant and incorrect as well.

Oh and by the way, 5 minutes of web-searching reveals that both NFL and MLB have coin tosses written into their tie break rules. Haven't bothered looking into NBA yet. So umm...yeah soccer is stupid? OP, and this thread are beyond stupid IMO.

Yes actually, I have a way better solution. But first let me say I don't know why soccer fans have to be such assholes when you question their sport lol. Take it easy buddy. Anyway, the solution: have a playoff match OR if that is too much, have a shootout. Quick, little energy expended etc.

Second, the coin toss in football is used to determine WHO GETS THE BALL FIRST. Not to decide who advances to the NEXT ROUND. No major US Sports leaves this up to chance even in the event of a tie in all tie breaking scenarios. Baseball doesn't use a coin toss at all I don't know where you got that from. In the event of a tie in Baseball there is a one game playoff to decide who advances. Ignorant and incorrect? Not quite, check your facts.

So thanks for the pointless namecalling, but most of what you said is completely wrong, or should I say ignorant and incorrect?

im not going to do the research, but you have to be wrong on this.
basketball and football do not have play in games for the playoffs. so
even if it is extremely unlikely, there will eventually be a coinflip.

on second thought , i guess ill agree with you.
the tiebreaks are so elaborate i dont think they would ever result in a coin flip.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/story/7164305
http://football.about.com/cs/football101/a...tiebreakers.htm

That's what the soccer people are saying about the world cup too.

Start by eliminating all but the highest ranked club in each division by using the divisional tiebreaker above. After the field has been narrowed to no more than one team from each division, the following tiebreakers are used:
1. Head-to-Head
2. Conference Record
3. Common Games (minimum of four)
4. Strength of Victory
5. Strength of Schedule
6. Combined Ranking Among Conference Teams (points scored and points allowed)
7. Combined Ranking Among All Teams (points scored and points allowed)
8. Net Points (conference games)
9. Net Points (all games)
10. Net Touchdowns (all games)
11. Coin toss

Thats good at least..I'd expect the US to have their head on straight :-)

Yea, I'm wrong in the way I worded it, it isn't that the coin flip doesn't exist in some of these rule books. It's that your talking about sports where games reach 60-200+ points and percentages/totals are calculated based upon 16-100 games of data. Plus as you can see it is FAR more extensive then "points, heads up match, yellowcards".

If the soccer experts here tell me it has never happened and will never happen (the tie thing), then I concede that it is not a problem. This was just the first I've heard of it and it surprised me. Also, it seems a lot more likely to occur based on only 3 games with such low scoring.

I stated already that it has never happened.

You said I'm pretty sure, and you were being condescending in response to an honest question. Forgive me for looking for a second opinion.

Yes and you were calling people pricks and saying I hope you kill yourself.

You really are a class A jerk.

Yes, I can get pretty pissed off when knowitalls such as yourself start with me. Just remember who started off with the condescending tone. If nothing else your banter entertained me during a long work day. I'm off to watch the hockey game.

okay, this has been answered already and yoda, you are just beating a dead horse and instigating. I'm locking this down