I get KQ108 double suited and bet the pot. in PLOHL8 three people call, and a Tight Aggressive) player in later position re bets the pot. (My bet was initially $1.50 more (we were playing .25/.50 blinds. (I had like $50 and TAG had like, 35. TAG is a really good player who is known to make a play at the pot when someone such as myself (Loose Aggressive))

I re bet the pot (which was a massive bet of all in and he could have easily folded the hand and I KNEW he would fold anything BUT AA23)

I knew my odds of winning against a hand such as AK26 would be a favorite of around 57% for the high. I felt he had a hand like that, but didnt rule out him having AA, in wihich case I was still roughly 42%(unless he had my suited and even that I wasnt that big of a dog) But again, it was a raise to get him off of his hand pre flop.

Anyway, he ended up calling with AA26 (the only type of hand I knew he could have) I hit two pair but t got counterfeit on the river when two running cards paired and he had higher two pair.

Anyway, if your opponent shows you As,Ks,2s,6s and you have Kd,10d,8h,Qh in PLOHL8 do you go all in with them? Being a 57% favorite for the high, I think I would do it, because it would be highly unlikely that the board would be QQ347. I figure with hand like that vs a hand like that, Im either going to Scoop, or lose, which completely eliminated the low potential.


Discuss!!!

First of all, put away your parenthasis shotgun. Secondly, fold preflop.

Post this in strat if you really want some good advice

Maybe General will surprise with me with awesome PLO8 advice....I doubt it...

There's not really anything to it. What the hell is he doing with that hand under the gun?

I didn't read the details - yeah, I fold or limp if the table is very passive

Its a strong hand though... and nobody responded in the strat forum

It's Omaha 8ob not Omaha high. There's a difference.

Not really, I'm learning O8 myself but that's a marginal hand from EP if I ever saw one.

The O8 strat guys will get to your post at some point - give them a day or so.

terrible way to play it

send them pottery to expedite the process.

fold preflop. not even close.

KQ108 is garbage in PLO8. Muck. Every. Time.

Agreed, just like LHE and NLHE are two totally different games, PLO8 and PLO are two totally different beasts, playing a hand without a low possibility in early postion is almost always suicide.

Well LHE and NLHE are "like" 2 totally different games, but essentially they are both still holdem. PLO8 and PLO really are two different games. K10J8 is pretty trashy hand in PLO too from early position.

I think the OP forgot his SW...

if not WOW

I would never play this hand in O8 not from any position (except checking in the blinds) little lone raise the pot and then re pot it.


also on another note this whole topic reminds me of Euro rounders

"pot...pot...pot...pot...re pot...re pot... think for two seconds re pot"

"even so i'm still only a 52/48 dog"

pure genius

Preflop is a super duper easy fold.
It's closer in PLO, probably a fold UTG>

wow wow wow. no wonder I make so much playing this game. You know how often AA23 comes around? AA2 - AA4 is usually good enough for most players to get it all-in.

57% for the high? interesting...

You are 57% for the high, and 0% for the low. Do you see why reraising with that is a bad idea?

that hand is good in PLO High but weak at PLO8.

to my knowledge, i dont think there's anything we should be initially pottin UTG

better luck next time bro

thing is, it was double suited. I forgot to leave out that it was 5 handed. Im a loose aggressive player. And honostly, its a big drawing hand. Im not some tightass who folds everything except for AA, KK with low potential. I cant believe how many people think it is garbage becuase it certainly is a very pretty hand. PLO is a drawing game, not a omg I have AA I win every time. AA isnt always the favorite, KK certainly isnt so hot either.

I read an article on one of those full tilt poker "lessons" saying how in PLO8 hands like K10Q8 double suited are very powerful becuase when you hit with them, you arent going to split the pot. Im no mathematician, but the 57% edge must boil down to a coinflip/slight favorite for all the hands where the board will be QQ358 so AA23 splits the pot with me. More likely than not, the board will be either 225KA, QQ103K, KK789, 23A7Q. It will RARELY be something that gives me the high, and him the low. If I had a hand like 6789 double suited, I could easily understand the logic that you are all trying to explain, becuase the outs that correspond with me having the winning high hand more often than not will give him the low, meaning that it is CERTAINLY -ev to go all in with a hand like that, But as we all know, 6789 double suited is one of the only type of hands better than AAxx in PLO non high low

Basically the question at hand is, is QK108 double suited going to scoop more often than 93% when I hit the high? I think its gotta be pretty close. If we assume that I can get the TAG player to fold pre flop at least 1/5 times, and i win everything in the pot pre flop, it is DEFINATLY +EV

That is a hand you may want to see a flop with, but it is not a raising hand for sure. High only hands are marginal in O8b to begin with, and that is one without a lot of nut potential. You are double suited, but you don't have nut flush possiblity. You are playing for straights, but King high straight could be beat by Ace high straight.

In O8b you really don't want ot make 2nd best hands if you can not getaway from them. This feels like a hand the can cost you a lot of money. Me- I fold this preflop in EP almost every time.

I'll put this in terms you would understand: PLO and PLO8 are completely different, like how ceramic statues are completely different than plastic statues.

PS You definitely didn't need to change the size of your words. We can read.

I don't even know where to begin here. Let me fix a few things first.

The point of a hi/low game is to give yourself a chance to scoop the entire pot. When you put yourself in a position where you can win only one side your opponnent is essentially frerolling on your for half the pot.


This assumes that you see a flop cheaply first, numbnuts. I guess getting it all in preflop with no chance at the low side of the pot is a good option too though.


Where exactly did you get that 93% number because it smells like shit.

Good spelling.

5 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
4 Members: Hobbes, Habs Fan, Bizzle, turd ferguson

Perfect.

FYP, and god damnit.

I refuse to believe that anyone can

a. be so bad at poker
and
b. defend their play when told by everyone that it was horrible

I just don't get it.

Stick to pottery. Freakin' DN fanboy...wait a minute...

Bahahaha

There is actually an o/8 calculator. His expected equity is 44.2%

DN Fanboy...


BHAHBHABHBHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAINTERNETLAUGHINGHAHAHAAH

THANK YOU

This is ridiculousness. My head is about to explode. Tantalar you are very fluent in donkspeak. You throw out percentages and numbers but you really have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

Trust us




And dont make pottery. Its gey





FYP

From now on all flames on this site should end with

I read an article on one of those full tilt poker "lessons" saying how in PLO8 hands like K10Q8 double suited are very powerful becuase when you hit with them, you arent going to split the pot.

First off, you did NOT read a full tilt article saying this, because all pros aren't dumb enough to say KQ108 ds is very powerful in PLO8, its very rare that a pro will play an O8 hand without a low possibility in it. So, please show me this article.
Second, when you hit with this hand you're not going to always scoop the pot or even the hi, its very likely that someone can be playing the same high. I don't consider myself a great PLO8 player, but i've seen donkeys that know more about this game than you.

This is probably what he's talking about:

"Many players undervalue hands that contain four high cards. For example, a hand like K-Q-J-T is a solid Omaha-8 hand. Any flop that has two cards above a 9 will give K-Q-J-T a straight draw, two-pair, or a set. On such a flop, there probably won't be a qualifying low, so there's a great chance to scoop. (In Omaha-8, three of the board cards must be 8 or below for anyone to make a low that can take half the pot.) If the flop has three low cards, you can abandon K-Q-J-T, knowing that it's got essentially no chance to win."

From Lesson 43

But "solid" is not "very powerful," and KQT8 is not KQJT.

Ah, touche, thanks for clearing that up.

Poker is a game about making the correct mathematical plays over a long period of time. if I put someone on a hand, and I know full well what they have, then i know that they arent going to be sharing my outs. All over this thread, you all make it sound like theres more than one person to the flop and there arent. If this guy calls me, I know exactly what he has. With anything less, he would have folded (Like I said)

The following applies to all forms of poker. I dont know if im giving you guys too much credit, but the basic concept behind the play is that all I have to do is steal the pot certainly no more than 1/10 of the time for it to be a break even play. Regardless of the exact % of the time, it is the same concept as semi bluffing. You try to take down the pot right there. Just like re raising pre flop with AK. you dont WAAANNNTTT to see the flop and gamble with someone who has QQ. But if it comes to it, your 44% to win. You rely on stealing the pot BEFORE the flop to make up for that 6% difference. Thats basically all im trying to explain. Is my play a conservative play? hell no. Is it borderline wreckless? Yeah. I play PLOHL with a borderline wreckless strategy. But there is no way you can bash this play because of what i just explained, and the below statement.

my EE is 44% with Ks Qs 10d 8d vs Ah Kh 2h 6h.

In holdem...Ad Kh is only 43% against Qd Qs. Are you saying you should start folding AK pre flop because its not close enough to 50/50? I dont think so, I think you raise because they could have AQ or a pocket pair. What next, are we going to start picking on people for trying to bluff someone pre flop with garbage because they trust their read on the person?



Heres a link to the article I was talking about

http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/proLessons.php?lesson=43

"Many players undervalue hands that contain four high cards. For example, a hand like K-Q-J-T is a solid Omaha-8 hand. Any flop that has two cards above a 9 will give K-Q-J-T a straight draw, two-pair, or a set. On such a flop, there probably won't be a qualifying low, so there's a great chance to scoop. (In Omaha-8, three of the board cards must be 8 or below for anyone to make a low that can take half the pot.) If the flop has three low cards, you can abandon K-Q-J-T, knowing that it's got essentially no chance to win."



Just goes to show how many of you truely undervalue a hand like KQ108 DS. Being afraid to gamble when your a slight favorite/slight dog is the mark of a bad player. I bet 90% of you are the type of player who check calls/ is afraid to go all in on the flop with an open ended straight flush draw too. Saying it is an aggressive, wreckless play is one thing, but calling it a BAD play is harsh and unacceptable, not to mention foolish. Again, go check the EE and ask yourself "Why do I re raise someone who has QQ when I have AK, and why do i go all in pre flop with it in holdem" its the same basic mathematical concept.

I'm pretty sure you don't full well know anything big guy.

Also, you suck at the pottery.

Which is appropriate enough I guess, cause it's really gey.

Good luck to you.

You are an idiot. A hand like KQ108 DS does not require low cards. If I instead had a hand like 4567 DS your arguement would makse sense. However, the hands needed for my HIGH do NOT correspond with the cards my opponent needs for the LOW. Therefore, Im either going to SCOOP, or im going to LOSE. RARELY will I get Half, VERY RARELY. Just stop and think for a second of how many board combinations allow me to scoop, how many allow him to scoop, and how many time i get half. Then maybe youll realize that the vast majority of the time, Im either going to Scoop, or lose which almost completely eliminates the low factor. the 7% advantage for the high is close to the slight edge of him having the low when i have the high (which is pretty rare)

Come on man... its not that complicated

And exactly how often do you think you're going to scoop this pot, math wiz?

"I'm pretty sure you don't full well know anything big guy.

Also, you suck at the pottery.

Which is appropriate enough I guess, cause it's really gey."

I came to talk strategy, you came to insult people. You are most likely some fat hairy piece of s hit who weighs 350 pounds, has no life, is a net losing poker player, got abandoned by your wife for your poker losses, and now comes to fullcontactpoker.com to troll the forums. Outside of the forum you are most certainly a nobody. Unproductive to society. A worthless piece of garbage. Your that fa g at the casino who giggles as he check calls pot sized bets with gutshots and flush draws on paired boards.

FYP

Are you saying you're not gonna make me some fancy pottery?

My EE is 44% so I only lose 56% of the time. Having the ability to steal the pot pre flop covers the 6% so it is at worst case a break even play, and mostly a slightly profitable play. Even if by only a few percentages.

Also, there's no poker at my casino so you're obviously wrong about me.

I bet if we interviewed the guy with AA26 he would be laughing at you

I'm convinced that anybody who uses poker references in real life insults has never had sex.


Pretty much sums it up.


You realize that you're only going to scoop about 25% of the time right?

When I have AK vs QQ I may be 43% to win, but I don't rereraise with it either. You were pushing with your garbage in a game where you would most definately want to see the flop.

Pottery is like a rainbow flag that you can't carry around with you.

I'm a ceramic artist, and I made you something out of clay. Its a really nice vase, and because your my favorite poker player, and this site is awesome, I thought it would be an honor to make you something really nice. How should I send it to you?

What was so strategic about that lengthy diatribe? Calm down, and step away from the 'reply' button.

And dont make pottery. Its gey

Ahahahaha! You guys are freakin brutal.