Blinds 100-200

UTG- tight player who I've sat with several times
UTG+1- know him by reputation, very good player, bracelet winner
UTG knows I'm very TAG, UTG+1 said he had me "pegged as a good player"

UTG - T4000
UTG+1 - T8000 These are PF
me - T8500

UTG raises to 600 and UTG+1 calls. Folds to me in the BB and I squeeze KK.

I reraise to 2300 to go. UTG calls without much thought. UTG+1 says "let's dance" and also calls.

Range for UTG is TT+ excluding AA and AK. UTG+1-not as good of a read

Pot = T7000

Flop JT6 rainbow

I...?

If your range for UTG is 1010+ excluding AA/AK, then he's likely to have hit a set. KK is not likely since you have that hand so you're only ahead of QQ. UTG pot committed himself with that call, so I would not include AQ or KQ in his holdings.

Based on your read, I would have to check. If UTG+1 is out of the picture, then you're getting 5-1 on any jam from UTG and you don't have to worry about getting knocked out. I don't think that I could lay down KK here especially since I have UTG covered.

I check/fold if UTG+1 is still in the picture as he probably has the same read on UTG as you and should fold unless he has something.

my fault...I'm excluding AA since I think he would have pushed, but AK is still a very likely holding for him

This is a tough one. UTG is pot committed and I think you have to pay off a set. UTG+1 is problematic, but I'm not sure we need to fear him. When he called you, there was 5300 in the pot (including SB) and he called 1700, so he's getting 3:1. That could imply a suited connector that he decided to gamble on to see if he can get paid off.

I'd be worried about JT, but KQ is a possibility as is something like 78 or 9T. I'd be worried that if I check, UTG checks and then UTG+1 bets with something we can beat (88, 99?) because it'll be tough for us to raise. On the other hand, if we check, UTG pushes, UTG+1 folds, then we have an automatic call because it'll be 1700 to win 6000 and we could be up against QQ there. Worse yet, if we check and get 2 checks, then a bad card comes off (9 or Q?) then we're really in a world of hurt.

If we push, and get called by UTG+1 we have problems, but I think we have to take that chance since we're paying off UTG anyway.

My first instinct was to push and that's still my preferred option. As the others have said, you're calling utg anyway so you might as well try to put pressure on utg+1.

Something different would be to bet around 800. If my maths is right then that means that utg can raise all in without preventing you from reraising in the same betting round. The bet might cause some confusion.

I wouldn't expect a tight player to play TT or JJ like that, but you know him better. I'm interested to know what you did and what they had.

I completely disagree...the last thing you want is to scare utg+1 away and face utg alone, who quite probably has you beat.

You need to get UTG+1's money into the pot to show any type of profit here.

Check and hope utg+1 puts enough in to generate a sidepot.


UTG only has another 1700 for you to win (lose)....utg+1 has 4000 chips that utg can't touch, but you can...scaring utg+1 sends any chance you have of profiting on this hand down the drain.

The sidepot is what makes calling the probable favourite utg profitable...because when you do beat utg, you almost always beat utg+1 as well....and when you don't beat utg, you still usually beat utg+1.

I take your point. That said, I'm not sure the hero is losing to utg or that utg+1 will play at this pot. I certainly think that it's an interesting hand though.

shpaget...what's your line? Check, let UTG take the lead and see what UTG+1 does? if it's UTG all in then UTG +1 fold - do you call?

I agree that lead-pushing here is not good.

1) As someone else mentioned, you want UTG+1 along. Lead-pushing might scare him off.

2) If UTG+1 is drawing, you still can't price him out of a draw by lead-pushing. If you push, you can only push in his remaining 5700 stack. Pot is already 7000. Pot becomes 12700 and he has to call 5700 - better than the 2-1 he needs.

3) UTG is committed here, and so are you if it's just you and him. He's calling and you're calling if either of you bet and UTG+1 drops out. So you don't really care about giving him a free card if he checks.

4) Assume UTG is going all-in - a reasonable assumption. If you check and if UTG+1 raises to isolate, there's a good chance he can beat your hand. But he calls your lead-push anyways. If UTG+1 calls to draw (or raises to semi-bluff isolate), he was probably going to call your lead-push as well. However, by checking here, you at least open up the possibility for UTG+1 to call/raise with a non-draw that you can beat.

So I think the line here is to check with the intention of check-raising all-in.

I'm still having a hard time with a check because let's assume UTG flopped their set. If you check and they check to trap, you're giving a free card to UTG+1 if he's drawing.

And since we do want UTG+1 for a sidepot, and since you seem to think UTG+1 will call our push, where's the problem in pushing? You can't have it both ways, either you think UTG+1 will call or you don't. If you think he will, then there's no "scaring him off". However, if we end up giving a free card, we'll hate ourselves for it later if UTG+1 hits.

We push, UTG calls, UTG+1 is getting better than 2:1 on a draw, so he calls, and we're in good for the sidepot against UTG+1. If UTG+1 folds to our push, we're not getting a sidepot with him where we're ahead anyway. Do you really think it's going to go: check, check, UTG+1 leads out with AJ? I don't think so.

Yes and yes.

Based on your reads, 6 hands kill you (JJ/TT) and 6 hands you like (QQ), and you have slightly better odds at beating JJ/TT than QQ has beating you.

Long-term this is almost even though there is some dead money in the pot...I'd like to see if we can get some more of it in there.

Factor in that you think he may have AK, he may fold to a lead bet...you'd rather check and let him cb his remaining chips with AK.

And, even though you discount it, factor in AA and you REALLY need some more money from utg+1 to make this profitable.

I don't even have a problem with pushing all-in after utg+1 calls 1700 (though I'd rather see all his chips in there), but even getting that extra dead money in there with you heads up against utg ensures the hand's long-term profitability.




How about check, utg pushes, and utg+1 calls, then you can call or push.

As nomad stated, you're not pricing him out of the pot on the flop, (though he still may fold depending on what draw he really has) but you could on the turn.

How about waiting for the turn and making your decision then - you can price him out of the pot there AND if he does call it would be a mistake (your ultimate goal)...if he calls on the flop he's not making a mistake.

Giving a free card isn't a bad move if your opponent's call would be a correct play...instead of him paying for two cards, make him pay for only 1, and see if he makes a mistake.

Not sure why you wouldn't just move in here preflop. The overlay's big enough that you'll get called by hands you're killing a fair amount, and if they fold, great, you pick up a lot of chips.

That being said, I'm 0 for 19 with KK lately, so I probably start crying as soon as I see it.

good luck.

I might be way off here, but what about asking UTG for a chip count and betting exactly what he has?


Edit: having read the other responses, it appears that I am way off. Thinking though was that they probably both call you and then you check 4th and 5th street down.

I pushed in and UTG went into the tank and eventually folded. UTG+1 folded as well.

UTG had QQ and UTG+1 had AK.

Realistically these were the two hands I thought were the most likely as I thought UTG might actually fold JJ PF to that much pressure and UTG+1 more then likely isn't overcalling with JTs, JJ, or TT...even getting a reasonable price.

Thanks for the input and good luck.