Ok. I love this call. Alan is the funniest guy to watch.
Anyone else crack up at the audience's reaction the the preflop call and subsequent suckout on the turn that lead to his victory?
loooooooooooooooooooooool
edit - seriously...the faces were priceless. lolololol i love tournaments.
- Jordan
Full Version: Wpt Tonight (5/24)
Alan has some skill though I don't see it. He couldn't make it that far twice without it. He got very lucky to win and made some very bad calls. They said something about him making a great read with the KJs but I don' t think that was the case I think he just called with the KJs and was hoping he would win.
final table poker is nothing compared to the rest of the tourney.
i know WPT speeds up the blind structure so gambling it up with KJs is just something some players will do w/ that structure...maybe im wrong on this too, but that money can't really really really affect him greatly. I'm sure he was more focused on the first place finish than the money...i mean, yea it's 2 million..but the guy isn't exactly broke.
who knows. he's still funny to watch.
EG :: betting 300k with a 1 million stack with 6 high. blinds at 100/200k...getting instantly raised, and instantly folding ... looooooooool who does that? he does. and thats why i love him.
- Jordan
i know WPT speeds up the blind structure so gambling it up with KJs is just something some players will do w/ that structure...maybe im wrong on this too, but that money can't really really really affect him greatly. I'm sure he was more focused on the first place finish than the money...i mean, yea it's 2 million..but the guy isn't exactly broke.
who knows. he's still funny to watch.
EG :: betting 300k with a 1 million stack with 6 high. blinds at 100/200k...getting instantly raised, and instantly folding ... looooooooool who does that? he does. and thats why i love him.
- Jordan
Its simple the same reason Daniel doesn't have the same results as he use to have. He plays a lot of different times and as many as he can get into and he will get lucky a few times. Of course there is some skill but like i said the same reason DN is not getting the same results. He is not playing near as many WPT's as he played in 04. It takes an amount of luck and skill when you take time off it hurts your results. Prove me wrong.
Alan G. is one of the best "chip accumulators" on the circuit. IMO he is one of the best deep stacked tournament players in the world, but I haven't played with him so basically Im just spouting off. He only plays events that have deep stacks/good structures, so the number of tournaments he enters is limited.
He has a VERY unorthodox style, making very small preflop raises, most times minimum raising. However, it cannot be debated that he has been hugely successful.
Alan is by far the most successful part-time player on the circuit AINEC.
If I could pick two players to come out with a poker strategy book it would be The Grinder and Alan. Alan is a very intelligent guy and there is definitely a method behind his madness.
BTW, the WPT is an absolute jopke I would almost rather watch Poker Superstars.
He has a VERY unorthodox style, making very small preflop raises, most times minimum raising. However, it cannot be debated that he has been hugely successful.
Alan is by far the most successful part-time player on the circuit AINEC.
If I could pick two players to come out with a poker strategy book it would be The Grinder and Alan. Alan is a very intelligent guy and there is definitely a method behind his madness.
BTW, the WPT is an absolute jopke I would almost rather watch Poker Superstars.
The final table blinds in the last few episodes weren't actually that bad. The only reason the blinds on this one got so bad is that no one got knocked out for the first hour of the broadcast. People kept hitting miracles to stay alive. It's just like when you play a SNG and no one's out after the first four or five levels. The chips are going to be spread around more and everyone's going to have a lowish M for the most part. I actually looked at the final table Ms of the WPT PCA here...
http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...pic=58818&st=20
As for Goehring, he's pretty sick. His call with KJs actually reminded me of the way I got knocked out of the WSOP Circuit Event 2...how I sat there folding forever and finally pushed a good chunk with QJs on the button and got called by the BB w/ A2s. Honestly, Goehring seemed to play the final table pretty well. Yeah, he got lucky, but his only major misstep looked to be the final hand.
http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...pic=58818&st=20
As for Goehring, he's pretty sick. His call with KJs actually reminded me of the way I got knocked out of the WSOP Circuit Event 2...how I sat there folding forever and finally pushed a good chunk with QJs on the button and got called by the BB w/ A2s. Honestly, Goehring seemed to play the final table pretty well. Yeah, he got lucky, but his only major misstep looked to be the final hand.
QUOTE (CobaltBlue @ Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 1:56 AM) 
The final table blinds in the last few episodes weren't actually that bad. The only reason the blinds on this one got so bad is that no one got knocked out for the first hour of the broadcast. People kept hitting miracles to stay alive. It's just like when you play a SNG and no one's out after the first four or five levels. The chips are going to be spread around more and everyone's going to have a lowish M for the most part.
Yeah but heres the thing. When youre playing for MILLIONS, the blinds shouldnt be similar to a sit and go!
Take notes from the WSOP tournament structure for **** sakes.
I wasn't comparing it to a sit and go per se...just illustrating the point that when the blinds go up and no one's going out, of course the stacks are going to get smaller.
Meh... I really hope they eventually change the structure... do you think more ppl would watch if they showed a "live" final table?
QUOTE (Matt Matros @ Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 7:33 AM)
For those who don't know, Alan is extremely loose, extremely tricky, and an extreme pain-in-the-ass to play against. In fact, I think I need to spend some time coming up with a better strategy against him for the next time we meet.
[Hand Quiz from LAPC]
Hand 4. Blinds 2000/4000, 500 ante. Folds to Alan in late position. Alan limps. I make it 18k. Folds to Alan, who calls. Flop 986 rainbow. Alan checks. I bet 30k. Alan calls. Turn T. Alan bets 45k. I call. River A. Alan bets 100k. I have about 150k left. What's Alan's range? What do I call with? What do I jam with?
Hand 4
My answer: Again, I don't know what Alan's range is. It definitely includes straights and sets, but I'm not sure to what extent (if any) it includes other hands. Again, I'm getting 3-1. I'm guessing I should call with a set of eights or better.
Results: I called with a set of nines. Alan showed a set of tens.
Your answers: Most of you were still perplexed by Alan, but overall you gave him a stronger range on this hand than on the last one. Still, only one of you would've mucked my set of nines. Good to see my thinking wasn't so far out of line with everyone else's. Although we all might have no idea what we're talking about--there might just be a reason Alan has won a couple of these things.
[Hand Quiz from LAPC]
Hand 4. Blinds 2000/4000, 500 ante. Folds to Alan in late position. Alan limps. I make it 18k. Folds to Alan, who calls. Flop 986 rainbow. Alan checks. I bet 30k. Alan calls. Turn T. Alan bets 45k. I call. River A. Alan bets 100k. I have about 150k left. What's Alan's range? What do I call with? What do I jam with?
Hand 4
My answer: Again, I don't know what Alan's range is. It definitely includes straights and sets, but I'm not sure to what extent (if any) it includes other hands. Again, I'm getting 3-1. I'm guessing I should call with a set of eights or better.
Results: I called with a set of nines. Alan showed a set of tens.
Your answers: Most of you were still perplexed by Alan, but overall you gave him a stronger range on this hand than on the last one. Still, only one of you would've mucked my set of nines. Good to see my thinking wasn't so far out of line with everyone else's. Although we all might have no idea what we're talking about--there might just be a reason Alan has won a couple of these things.
alan is a big donk period
Alan is a suicidal manic, the only way to play him would be kill phil style.
There was around a million dollar difference between 1st and 2nd in prize money...there is NO WAY he calls off 5 million chips pre flop with K8 off when all he had invested was a bb and an ante if there was no deal already made, IMO.
he plays some very bizarre poker
There was no deal, the WPT doesnt allow deals, and Alan Goehring plays for victories not money. I don't remember the blinds, but if Quach was doing this often to steal big blinds and antes, k8 could easily be ahead of his range. Although that is just speculation because I dont know the blind structure at that point, or how Quach was playing
QUOTE (Vatche @ Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 9:31 PM)
There was around a million dollar difference between 1st and 2nd in prize money...there is NO WAY he calls off 5 million chips pre flop with K8 off when all he had invested was a bb and an ante if there was no deal already made, IMO.
There was no deal, the WPT doesnt allow deals, and Alan Goehring plays for victories not money. I don't remember the blinds, but if Quach was doing this often to steal big blinds and antes, k8 could easily be ahead of his range. Although that is just speculation because I dont know the blind structure at that point, or how Quach was playing
QUOTE (GrinderMJ @ Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 11:33 AM)
he plays some very bizarre poker
There was no deal, the WPT doesnt allow deals, and Alan Goehring plays for victories not money. I don't remember the blinds, but if Quach was doing this often to steal big blinds and antes, k8 could easily be ahead of his range. Although that is just speculation because I dont know the blind structure at that point, or how Quach was playing
There was no deal, the WPT doesnt allow deals, and Alan Goehring plays for victories not money. I don't remember the blinds, but if Quach was doing this often to steal big blinds and antes, k8 could easily be ahead of his range. Although that is just speculation because I dont know the blind structure at that point, or how Quach was playing
I believe blinds were 150k/300k and who knows the ante, probably 30k. I mean... 5 mil isn't even that much in this case. Standard raise puts in 1/5 of your stack. You're committed almost regardless. He didn't expect him to have that big a hand, you could tell... and he also made the comment he was getting tired of it... so he could have meant he was tired of all the pushes... which they wouldn't show on tv if there wasn't any call and it was happening a lot.
QUOTE (GrinderMJ @ Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 9:33 AM)
he plays some very bizarre poker
There was no deal, the WPT doesnt allow deals, and Alan Goehring plays for victories not money. I don't remember the blinds, but if Quach was doing this often to steal big blinds and antes, k8 could easily be ahead of his range. Although that is just speculation because I dont know the blind structure at that point, or how Quach was playing
There was no deal, the WPT doesnt allow deals, and Alan Goehring plays for victories not money. I don't remember the blinds, but if Quach was doing this often to steal big blinds and antes, k8 could easily be ahead of his range. Although that is just speculation because I dont know the blind structure at that point, or how Quach was playing
qualch was not moving in a lot as far as i can tell, but you never know how much they edit...
WPT not allowing deals dosent mean they cant make a deal, they can make a deal with eachother, but wpt wont cooperate, theyt are going to pay out 1st for 1st and 2nd for 2nd, etc...its up to the players to exchange the money afterwards...i just dont see how any1 can make this call without a deal being made...if you notice, none of them were even excited or upset after that K hit the turn, they had a "whatever" attitude.
but who knows, maybe there was no deal made and Alan Gohering is just a crazy player.
Know who got hosed?
JC Tran!
JC Tran!
QUOTE (Suited_Up @ Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 9:50 AM)
Know who got hosed?
JC Tran!
JC Tran!
that hand was pretty sickening.
QUOTE (Suited_Up @ Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 8:50 AM)
Know who got hosed?
JC Tran!
JC Tran!
I remembered that Alan G. won this event and during that hand, I just start to convulse. I just remember saying to my friend "This river is going to be the most sickening thing you've ever seen."
That goes right up there with Danny Ngyuen's runner-runner sevens to crack AK with A7 on a K-x-x flop for worst WPT beat eeeeva.
QUOTE (Vatche @ Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 8:38 AM)
qualch was not moving in a lot as far as i can tell, but you never know how much they edit...
WPT not allowing deals dosent mean they cant make a deal, they can make a deal with eachother, but wpt wont cooperate, theyt are going to pay out 1st for 1st and 2nd for 2nd, etc...its up to the players to exchange the money afterwards...i just dont see how any1 can make this call without a deal being made...if you notice, none of them were even excited or upset after that K hit the turn, they had a "whatever" attitude.
but who knows, maybe there was no deal made and Alan Gohering is just a crazy player.
WPT not allowing deals dosent mean they cant make a deal, they can make a deal with eachother, but wpt wont cooperate, theyt are going to pay out 1st for 1st and 2nd for 2nd, etc...its up to the players to exchange the money afterwards...i just dont see how any1 can make this call without a deal being made...if you notice, none of them were even excited or upset after that K hit the turn, they had a "whatever" attitude.
but who knows, maybe there was no deal made and Alan Gohering is just a crazy player.
Date / Time: 2006-02-22 12:13AM
Title: All In Preflop
Log: Flops are few and far between as one of the two players is moving all in preflop almost every hand and trading blinds back and forth
It looks like it did just turn into an all-infest once they got heads up.
QUOTE (freak2304 @ Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 12:15 PM)
Date / Time: 2006-02-22 12:13AM
Title: All In Preflop
Log: Flops are few and far between as one of the two players is moving all in preflop almost every hand and trading blinds back and forth
It looks like it did just turn into an all-infest once they got heads up.
Title: All In Preflop
Log: Flops are few and far between as one of the two players is moving all in preflop almost every hand and trading blinds back and forth
It looks like it did just turn into an all-infest once they got heads up.
See, I aint no dummy.
QUOTE (Suited_Up @ Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 10:21 PM)
See, I aint no dummy.
i said it first
QUOTE (GrinderMJ @ Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 12:22 PM)
i said it first
Oh, I actually missed that "IF quach" part of your sentence. Well... mine was more clear and concise. lol. But nice job.
im just glad it's teaching the common tv viewer of how to play good HU poker.
- Jordan
- Jordan
I don't know whose call was worse--Alan's with K8 or the guy who busted Kenna James this season with JT.
QUOTE (Dan The Man @ Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 5:14 PM)
I don't know whose call was worse--Alan's with K8 or the guy who busted Kenna James this season with JT.
that was awesome too.
- Jordan
QUOTE (Jordan @ Friday, May 26th, 2006, 2:14 AM)
that was awesome too.
- Jordan
- Jordan
im still skeptical on alan g play. you obviously have to win races to win anything even a regular sng i just think he takes a few too many. shortctack big stack he was willing to call with what he thought MIGHT be a race. although he does slow down the ODD time. I think this guy daniel played better then anyone else at the final table he definently deserved the win.
i think mizarachi (sp?) plays a much better accumulating style
A gamble sure, but if it really was a non-stop push fest every hand I don't think the call is terrible.
QUOTE
Anyone else crack up at the audience's reaction the the preflop call and subsequent suckout on the turn that lead to his victory?
I loved Alan's "I was just tired" explaination after about his call. That's the second guy this WPT season that called "just because he was tired" and won the freakin' joint.
If I ever make it to a WPT final table, I'm gonna go on an all night drinking binge the night before, get some hookers 'n blow, and finish it off my drinking 2 cups of Dunkins before the table begins.
Then I'll go to the final table, be really "tired", and I'll instantly TP/MM
Hi fishheads. How have none of you linked to the 2+2 posts where Alan explains himself? Some of you really need to think outside the box occasionally... calling Alan a "donk" is just idiotic.
Alan's profile with links to all 41 of his posts
And two important threads: 1 and 2
If by donk-tacular you mean +EV, I agree.
Two key points:
1. The binds were 250k/500k/50k ante, so we were playing at about 10-12x BB. At 10x BB, if you play optimally against someone who moves all-in every hand (without looking at their cards), you will win 51% or 52% of the time, depending on who started with the big blind. So, gaining a significant edge by "outplaying" an experienced opponent is simply not a viable option with such large blinds (i.e. in "crapshoot" territory).
2. After the blinds increased, Daniel Quach moved all-in 5 of the 10 times he had the button, or one-half the time. He was in "all-in" mode, as a good player should be with the large blinds.
My thinking was that if he is moving all-in half the time, I should call with any hand in the top quartile of all hands, of which K8o is right on the border. With $1.1mm of dead money, I was getting slightly better than 6:5 odds, meaning I needed to be 45.45%+ to win.
Furthermore, we had almost the exact situation on the last hand of the most recent WPT event (Mirage May 2006). Stan raised to $1mm (pot committing himself), and Harry moved all-in (about $1.2-1.3mm more, which was 11-12BB's total) with K6o. Harry risked all his chips (more than 10bb's) with a lowly K6o, knowing he would get called, and I see nothing wrong with his play.
For those who think it was a bad call, I would like to know what your standards (i.e. threshold hands)would have been in my situation? (not that I would ever change my opinion)
Don't feel bad, Mike Sexton, Mike Matusow, and others also thought it was an awful play. I do like the word "Donk-tacular". Although it looked like I played terrible, every play I made at the FT was the correct play for me based on my "overall integrated strategy", which I am not going to explain
Alan's profile with links to all 41 of his posts
And two important threads: 1 and 2
QUOTE ("Alan Goehring")
QUOTE ("some internet fishie")
That K8 call was donk-tacular.
If by donk-tacular you mean +EV, I agree.
Two key points:
1. The binds were 250k/500k/50k ante, so we were playing at about 10-12x BB. At 10x BB, if you play optimally against someone who moves all-in every hand (without looking at their cards), you will win 51% or 52% of the time, depending on who started with the big blind. So, gaining a significant edge by "outplaying" an experienced opponent is simply not a viable option with such large blinds (i.e. in "crapshoot" territory).
2. After the blinds increased, Daniel Quach moved all-in 5 of the 10 times he had the button, or one-half the time. He was in "all-in" mode, as a good player should be with the large blinds.
My thinking was that if he is moving all-in half the time, I should call with any hand in the top quartile of all hands, of which K8o is right on the border. With $1.1mm of dead money, I was getting slightly better than 6:5 odds, meaning I needed to be 45.45%+ to win.
Furthermore, we had almost the exact situation on the last hand of the most recent WPT event (Mirage May 2006). Stan raised to $1mm (pot committing himself), and Harry moved all-in (about $1.2-1.3mm more, which was 11-12BB's total) with K6o. Harry risked all his chips (more than 10bb's) with a lowly K6o, knowing he would get called, and I see nothing wrong with his play.
For those who think it was a bad call, I would like to know what your standards (i.e. threshold hands)would have been in my situation? (not that I would ever change my opinion)
Don't feel bad, Mike Sexton, Mike Matusow, and others also thought it was an awful play. I do like the word "Donk-tacular". Although it looked like I played terrible, every play I made at the FT was the correct play for me based on my "overall integrated strategy", which I am not going to explain
QUOTE (anselm @ Thursday, June 15th, 2006, 12:21 AM)
Alan's profile with links to all 41 of his posts
And two important threads: 1 and 2
If by donk-tacular you mean +EV, I agree.
Two key points:
1. The binds were 250k/500k/50k ante, so we were playing at about 10-12x BB. At 10x BB, if you play optimally against someone who moves all-in every hand (without looking at their cards), you will win 51% or 52% of the time, depending on who started with the big blind. So, gaining a significant edge by "outplaying" an experienced opponent is simply not a viable option with such large blinds (i.e. in "crapshoot" territory).
2. After the blinds increased, Daniel Quach moved all-in 5 of the 10 times he had the button, or one-half the time. He was in "all-in" mode, as a good player should be with the large blinds.
My thinking was that if he is moving all-in half the time, I should call with any hand in the top quartile of all hands, of which K8o is right on the border. With $1.1mm of dead money, I was getting slightly better than 6:5 odds, meaning I needed to be 45.45%+ to win.
Furthermore, we had almost the exact situation on the last hand of the most recent WPT event (Mirage May 2006). Stan raised to $1mm (pot committing himself), and Harry moved all-in (about $1.2-1.3mm more, which was 11-12BB's total) with K6o. Harry risked all his chips (more than 10bb's) with a lowly K6o, knowing he would get called, and I see nothing wrong with his play.
For those who think it was a bad call, I would like to know what your standards (i.e. threshold hands)would have been in my situation? (not that I would ever change my opinion)
Don't feel bad, Mike Sexton, Mike Matusow, and others also thought it was an awful play. I do like the word "Donk-tacular". Although it looked like I played terrible, every play I made at the FT was the correct play for me based on my "overall integrated strategy", which I am not going to explain
And two important threads: 1 and 2
If by donk-tacular you mean +EV, I agree.
Two key points:
1. The binds were 250k/500k/50k ante, so we were playing at about 10-12x BB. At 10x BB, if you play optimally against someone who moves all-in every hand (without looking at their cards), you will win 51% or 52% of the time, depending on who started with the big blind. So, gaining a significant edge by "outplaying" an experienced opponent is simply not a viable option with such large blinds (i.e. in "crapshoot" territory).
2. After the blinds increased, Daniel Quach moved all-in 5 of the 10 times he had the button, or one-half the time. He was in "all-in" mode, as a good player should be with the large blinds.
My thinking was that if he is moving all-in half the time, I should call with any hand in the top quartile of all hands, of which K8o is right on the border. With $1.1mm of dead money, I was getting slightly better than 6:5 odds, meaning I needed to be 45.45%+ to win.
Furthermore, we had almost the exact situation on the last hand of the most recent WPT event (Mirage May 2006). Stan raised to $1mm (pot committing himself), and Harry moved all-in (about $1.2-1.3mm more, which was 11-12BB's total) with K6o. Harry risked all his chips (more than 10bb's) with a lowly K6o, knowing he would get called, and I see nothing wrong with his play.
For those who think it was a bad call, I would like to know what your standards (i.e. threshold hands)would have been in my situation? (not that I would ever change my opinion)
Don't feel bad, Mike Sexton, Mike Matusow, and others also thought it was an awful play. I do like the word "Donk-tacular". Although it looked like I played terrible, every play I made at the FT was the correct play for me based on my "overall integrated strategy", which I am not going to explain
Good read.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.