Mods please don't move/delete this, it's a serious question and if I posted in general I'd just get a bunch of "tp/mm lolz wtf"
I figure I'd ask here since a lot of you guys pay your way with poker, you understand how ****ing insane variance can get, and I respect your opinions.

I'm 18 and am graduating HS in two weeks.
I've never really wanted to go pro (as in move out and pay with poker), but this summer I'm kinda forced to because if I don't, then thanks to my parents who have all a sudden become the biggest bitches ever,
A) Hardly any possibility of poker. Maybe 1k hands a week if I'm really lucky.
I'll have to work a 40 hour/week minimum wage job.
C) Overall I'll have a very shitty summer. I'll be able to do stuff with friends once a week if I'm incredibly lucky, will have to go to church > twice a week (I'm atheist and they know this...), etc.
D) I won't have much money for college (related w/ A & B obviously...)
I don't want to do any of those things, so I figure I need to move out sometime within the next month.

The problem is, after being -.1 BB/100 after 50k hands and 300$ worth of expenses, my BR is down to a measley 3 grand. This has, of course, hurt my confidence as a poker player as well.
I know I'm a winning player, but it definitely has shown me that if/when I go pro, I'll need my expenses accounted for at least a month.

So my question is how should I go about doing this, if it is even feasible with my tiny bankroll?

The only real expenses I'd be looking at (until I really get on my feet) would be rent, DSL, standard TV cable, cell phone, gas, utilities, and food (I can live off ramen noodles if I have to ). I won't need to actually buy anything (bed/comp or whatever) besides a microwave.

If I need to, I can get a job as well as play, though I would think 8 more hrs/day of poker would be a better idea than an actual job.

So, to be conservative, let's assume that when the time comes to make a decision (~ 2 weeks), I'll have 3.5k to my name (I'm going to put in lots of hands between now and then).

I figure I would just set aside 1k off the get-go for expenses etc., which would hypothetically leave me with 2.5k to play 2/4 SH with. I can take out 1.5k or more from the get-go too, I'm open for suggestions on that one.

The first couple weeks (or however long it takes me to really get going), I can stand playing 5k-6k hands a day if it means I'll be able to really get on my feet later. I could also try convincing my gf to move in and split expenses, but I'd rather not.

If I go busto or something, I can move in with my dad and my life won't be too terrible, though it would suck.

So my questions:
1) Right now, what should I be doing with my 3k roll? Putting in lots of hands at WPEX? Bonus whoring like crazy? Should I even be playing 3/6 6max right now?
2) Is it possible to move out with 3.5k? Should I not even try until I get over 5k?
3) If/when I do move out, should I start with a lower variance game, like full ring? Maybe toss in some O8 or Stud8? I'm decent at those games, but nowhere near as good at them as in hold 'em. Should I go with the lowest variance possible and get a 8hr/day minimum wage job and have poker as a complement to it?

And of course any comments are greatly appreciated. I want to stress though, that this more a decision out of necessity than wanting to tp/mm. My summer will be absolutely miserable if I don't move out.

I'll just throw in some random advice..

I think you definatly need to mix in some other games to keep you from boredom/ going numb.

Also..getting in 5k hands a day seems very optimistic. I know you are 8 tabling, but seriously..I think you get burned out pretty easily this way.

You have the skills IMO..though I may not be a good judge. Downswinging myself aswell.

At this point, I'll pretty much do anything besides give rim jobs to hairy midgets for money, if it means I can move out.
I've done 10k hands in one day before, and I was OK the next day.
I really think I could put 5k+ hands in/day for 2 weeks without getting burned out, especially if I mix in some stud8 or NL or something.

Just my opinion...

Is college in the picture if you earn enough? What area do you live in?

I think you need a job. You need to pay rent and bills right away if you move out. If you start out on a downswing, you're going back home, but with worse credit. Not to mention even getting an apartment without a job is tough.

Job wise, working isn't so bad. What kinds of skills do you have? One job that is not demanding (doesn't pay well, but is not demanding) is a bank teller. Gone are the days when banks closed at 2, but my brother started out working as a teller, and the work itself is not physically hard - if you have good math skills, it's not mentally that hard either. Just can't make mistakes.

A trade job, like carpentry, etc. is harder but has good upward potential if you demonstrate ability. If you know how to use tools, you can probably get a little above minimum wage - say $10/hr. I used to work in a granite countertop fabrication shop. With no skills, starting pay was around the $10/hr range. Installing is a real b*tch (rock is heavy) but they often get overtime (on purpose or because of traffic/hard job). Measurements take some training, but it's one of the 'better' jobs because you don't have to do much heavy lifting, and still have plenty of overtime. (Personally, I didn't mind the hard work. Excercise+work at the same time). And, you can work in a pair of jeans.
Also, I'm the only one in America, but I haven't had cable in 10 years and have never owned a cell phone. It is possible to live without them.

As for other games, I would suggest PLO8 because it has the most profitability for the least risk, but it is boring if you play it well. Virtually never suffering bad beats though is compelling.

If I do work, then my best paying job would be 6.50$/hr tutoring college kids.
I am going to college locally (Indiana State University)
Another problem is that if I don't move out for the summer, then there's a strong chance that I'll end up having to stay at home for a semester, which I reall really really don't want to do.

If you are currently in school, then I would find out how much living in a dorm costs. Pay that out of your roll, and drop down.

Hotbacon,

I've basically done the same thing, and am in the EXACT same situation.

My parents are being bitches, don't "believe" that you can make money playing poker and refuse to listen to anything contrary to those beliefs. They would also force me to get a job at least 30 hrs per week, and NO poker.

Ok, so we're working with a 3k roll here. This basically means that your only option is to play 2/4 SH. However, you are going to have some expenses that you need to consider. Also, I'm not going to go over the whole poker thingy about this. You are a good player and you are more than capable of doing this IMO.

For starters:

-You'll need to get an apartment. I don't know what property values are in your location but these will tend to be the cheapest pieces of property you can find. apartmentfinder.com & apartmentguide.com are 2 good links to find good values for property in your area.

-You'll need to spend some time working on getting the apartment together. This may include paying 1 months rent in advance, on top of a security deposit, and usually an application fee. On top of all that, you might have to have your parents cosign for you since you are under 21, and your income is unverifiable via most apartment policies (this was the case with me, and since my parents were bitches, I had to get my grandmother to cosign.)

Options:

-You have a couple weeks to get everything together. I suggest that you start grinding out a TON of hands. What I'd rather see, however, is for you to drop from 8 tables down to something like the 4-6 range. You may have to play longer to get your hands in, but this will likely reduce your risk of a downswing/breakeven stretch, which would be disastrous for you.

-If at the end of this you have 3.5-4kish, you'll be in decent shape. You're basically going to have to liquidate some of your roll to accomodate the before-mentioned expenses, but that will leave you with a comfortable roll to grind out 2/4 for a month until your next set of expenses come in. By then, assuming you develop a good work schedule, you should be ok. I would recommend 2.5-3k hands per day 4-6 tabling. If you are a 2+ BB winner (I'm assuming your true win rate is at that level), then you will be absolutely fine.

-Do you have any good friends that would also be willing to go with this? This would essentially split all of your expenses in half and you'll have a much, much better chance of not going broke, and you won't have to feel like you are pressed for everything since you have help. DISCLAIMER: If you have a candidate for a roommate MAKE SURE THEY ARE 100% RELIABLE. I almost signed on with a lifelong best friend, but decided not to at the last minute because I found out that he was basically ruining himself credit wise (he quit his job, didn't tell anyone, basically had no interest in getting another).

-I don't know how strong your work ethic is (it would have to be really strong to consider this option), but you might shoot for getting a job in the 7.50-8.50 per hour range. I'm positive that you make more at poker, but this will be a consistent income that will help, and you don't have to keep it forever. In fact, if you do it for the first month and run well/average in poker, you'll be just fine. Getting a job isn't 100% necessary, but it would decrease your risk of going broke by a significant margin.

I can't think of much else. I wish you the best of luck, and if you need any other specific help/advice or have any questions, feel free to PM me.

Er, I'm going to college next year.
Right now I'm in high school, graduating in 2 weeks.

Alpha,
First thanks for the really good response. I appreciate it.

All my friends who I would trust enough to move in with, are going out of town for college so they won't do it.
If I pay a months in advance and all that, do you really think I would a parent to cosign? I'm 150% sure my mom won't (who I'm living with right now), but my dad might I suppose.
I'm definitely going to put in a lot of hands these next couple weeks. School's basically over, so I should be able to get a lot in.
I do have a strong work ethic. I had worked off and on since I was 12, did some part time during school, etc. Then I found poker 1.5 years ago

The way things are looking I'll probably get a job in the next couple weeks. If nothing else, it will help me get the apartment and provide some steady (albiet low) income.

I got confused... in the OP you said you won't have much money for college. I take it then tuition is taken care of?

If that's the case, I hate to say it, but I think your best bet is to stay at home for the summer. A dorm room is by far the cheapest accomodations you'll find. If you're worried about having to live at home for the semester, many schools require incoming freshmen to live on campus for a year. Stay at home, work, use that money for the dorm.

I don't understand why the best job you can get is the tutoring thing.

i'll try to give some more advice later, but for now you should know that you will typically have to pay two months' rent up front to get an apartment (first month plus security deposit). for some places you'll have to pay three months' rent. it may be difficult to get an apartment since you won't have any documented source of income and your parents might not want to cosign your lease, in which case you would have to pay for everything up front. there could also be set up fees for cable and internet. you have to pay for all these things before you can start playing poker in your own place.

Hopefully I can give some OK advice, couple of questions though that I hope aren't too personal...

1) How much of a winning player are you? What are your overall BB/100 numbers over how many hands at what stakes?

2) How is college being paid for?

Honestly, I would tend to advise against it. I don't know how you're paying for College, but I think it's important that you go. I would suggest that you get a job over the summer at least part time, continue to play poker in your spare time and build your roll. While you're in college you should have plenty of extra time on your hands to play poker with. By next summer you should easily be in a position to support yourself with poker.

The bottom line as I see it is this. You need to be able to AT LEAST pay your moving expenses, then have 1 months expenses set aside in addition to your roll in order to pull this off. Furthermore, I don't think that making a living play 2/4 SH is a great idea. I know you're playing a lot of tables, but you also just went through a 50k hand stretch at break even. You really don't know what your true winrate is and if it's low enough you're not going to be making much at 2/4.

I've been thinking about this sort of thing alot myself lately because I'm planning for when I am ready to go pro. I think that 3 months of expenses and 500 BB for 5/10 is probably where one should be before they consider going full-time.

Anyway, just my two cents, good luck with whatever you decide.

College I've got scholarships and a 10k trust fund.



I didn't like this reply at first, but the more I think about it the more I think that you're right. I don't think I should be going through all this trouble just so I can play poker and get away from my parents for the next 4ish months.
After reading the replies it appears that I would have to get a full time job anyway for getting an apartment, etc. I don't think I thought ab out how much work it would be until I posted this.
So, unless I win the mill gauranteed nexst weekend or something, I think I'm going to take your advice and suffer under my parents roof for another 4 months.
Thanks for replies guys.

I think part of the problem is your reasons for wanting to do this. Wanting to play full time because your parents are annoying you definetly isn't the right reason to go for it. Also, due to your roll, I would fully advise against it. Another reason I would advise against it is this, its the summer after your HS graduation. You should be having a blast and not spending it in front of a computer playing poker to grind out 600 a week

Actually the last part was one of my reasons for wanting to do it. My parents have become ridiculously strict. I can get out twice a week if they're in a good mood.
I agree with you though.

be up front with your parents. Show them your poker tracker stats as to the fact that you make money doing it, but citing them as reasons for going pro IMO shouldn't be one of the reasons as it comes more across as spite then anything else. What you should do is try to come across a happy medium with them. If you present things in an adult and rational manner then it will be hard for most parents to disagree and they will possibly relent a bit

I've contemplated doing this, but do you really think I'd have a chance explaining to my mom, whose initial reaction to meeting my prom date was asking her "Do you think jesus would approve of that dress?"

My parents are pretty religious. More Catholic than the vast majority of Catholics. I guess they also tend to be more tolerant than many religious people I've met, but I've managed to present poker in a way that doesn't have them too concerned about it. They've had relatives who've lost big money gambling and I know my parents are somewhat concerned and don't want me to ever "turn pro" but they don't think I'm throwing my life away gambling or anything. I've managed to present it as a +EV game, basically explaining that I'm the equivalent of the House. I have the edge and even though I can lose on any given day, I win more often than I lose. I think if you can explain it as a long term thing like that it might help. But, who knows....some people are impossible to convince.

Wow.

I think I would give up in this situation.

Edit: How does she handle you being atheist?

Actually, if you really wanted to mess with her, ask her to find you one place where Jesus says you shouldn't gamble. You could also tell her that you have a friend (ok, so you don't know me, but it sounds better than saying "some guy on a forum you wouldn't approve of, who I don't even know) who would be willing to show her, from scripture, how her attitude is turning people off to God, not furthering His message.

But that's neither here nor there, and I don't really think it's all that wise to turn this into any more of a pissing contest then it already is. It just bugs me when some christians seem to go out of their way to give all christians a bad name.

As for your problem, I tend to agree with the people who've said to just grit your teeth for the next four months until you go to school. Like poker, try and think long term in this case. Four months is nothing. It's boot camp. Think of it as a bad variance run that you happen to know is coming. The danger in trying to get away from it is you might end up in a worse spot, under-rolled, and short on living expenses. You may even end up hamstringing yourself for many more months after that. On the other hand, if you can just tough it out, at least you know you'll be able to get back into it soon enough.

Maybe spend the time re-reading, re-studying, going over hands, whatever it takes to keep your poker mind sharp, even though you won't be able to play much. Keep your roll healthy and build it when you can. Then, when the fall rolls around, you'll be fresh and energized. Then play as much as your schedule allows with the goal of being able to easily afford your own place next summer.

Good luck with this. I've gotten a lot out of your strat posts, so I know you've got the game. This is just one of those "life things" that we all have to get through.

She tells me it's just a fad and makes me go to church at least once a week.
She also randomly leaves bible excerpts on my bed to read.


Thought about doing this, because I've never seen anything in the bible which says anything bad about gambling. But I know how it would go over if I did.


yes, this is what I'm going to do. Hopefully everything will go OK. thanks for replies all.