Honesty is the best policy.

Swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God.

The truth hurts.

What they don't know won't hurt them.

White lies.

I've been thinking about these concepts a lot lately. Thinking about everything from being asked by your significant other if the outfit you know she wants to wear makes her look fat to questions like what would you do if you knew you could get away with it. There's a lyric in a prince song that says "if a man is guilty for all that goes on in his mind give me the electric chair for all my future crimes."

I've done a lot of things I'm not proud of. In different relationships I've been asked about those things in various contexts. Most of the time I've lied. Most of the time to protect myself. Sometimes to protect the other person. Sometimes I've lied because there is no way the person could acurately contextualize the situation which I know screams of rationalization but so be it.

I just wonder if other people strugglre with the concepts of personal honesty and personal integriity and when holding back the truth feels like the higher ground vesus unburdening yourself by dumping your truth on someone else.

Thought I'd start a discussion.

Bear

I think we've all done things we're not proud of. I nearly threw away a relationship with my girlfriend because of my own stupidity and my inability to cope with major change. It's been nearly two years, and I still putmyself through hell for it every day. I'll probably continue to do so for the rest of my life. I finally got to the point where I realized that to make things work, then anything less than 100% honesty is going to kill it, and I'm not about to let that happen.

In short, I was a complete tool and managed to somehow pull myself out of it in time to make things work. That, and I'm one lucky son of a *****.

See this is exactly what I'm talking about. 100% honesty? You never lie to her? About little things? About big things? When you think she's being a b itch, when you know she's right but it pisses you off, When you look at another woman or fantasize, when her mother or sister or best friend gets under your skin. About where ever dollar you have goes. You get the idea. I don't know you or her so maybe you are and maybe she is 100% honest, no white lies, no lies to protect. I can't imagine what that would be like. Is it liberating, horifying, depressing, morale sapping, freeing?

This is my point. We are taught that honestly is the end all and be all but even if we could live up to it do the people in our life really want it. Do they want to hear ever impulse, every frustration. Do they want kindness and dimplomacy and tact thrown out the window. If not then where does the slipery slope stop?

If they tell us they are being 100% honest, are they? Do we want it? Do we want to know that they wish we were better in bed, that they fake it, that their last boyfriend was bigger and better? That they wish we made more money? That they think we would sleep with our best female friend if given the chance to get away with it. What ever it is that they secretly think and believe which may or may not be founded in reality. And this is just trivial superficial hypotheticals I'm bringing up. What about big questions like are the settling for us for the sake of stability, Do they think they can change us, how are they trying to change us....etc etc.

And those are just a few possibilities from our significant others what about family and friends. Where does honesty start and stop with them.

I think our world sits on a foundation of myths and false beliefs that keep us from really trying to tackle the complexities of human interaction in the name of simplicity. The more I discover thetruth of that last statement the more dissalusioned and lost I feel. However, the one truth I do want and seek is honesty with myself.


Bear

Absolute honesty. I don't hide how I feel about situations from her. It's the only way I can keep myself from feeling as low as I did a few years ago, a place I never want to go back to. Considering how badly I tore her apart, how badly I ****ed up, this is the only way to go.

Sounds like you did something pretty heinous yourself (or had it done to you).

holding back the truth is absolutely essential at certain times

Give some examples and where do you draw your line. Does that make you dishonest and if not how to you justify that to yourself and to the people who matter to you?


Bear

I've had relationships with %100 honesty, after them I can't see myself with someone that I would have to lie to. It isn't that difficult if you are polite about things when you have things to say that will bother her. It helps if she is mature about things also.

See if you said We try to be as honest as possible, I'd buy it. However I've become so cynical I have to believe there are lies of ommission, or little white lies. Or things you keep to yourself because some things are better left unsaid. And if you are not doing it then is she? I don't know you again so maybe but it's just beyong my imagination, true 100% honesty. Again the point being once you start lying or holding back where do you draw the line and does it get easier to take a path of lesser resistance if not the path of least resistance. You know what I mean?

Bear.

It's pretty simple, really. If you're telling a lie to HONESTLY spare someone pain, then it's okay. It's not okay if it will cause more pain later. It's like a risk/pain calculus.

On the other hand, lying to save your own behind is NOT okay, though we all do it.

To me, what it comes down to, is being honest with yourself, more than anything. If you're honest about your personal motiviations and intentions, you can easily avoid the pitfalls associated with moral dilemmas regarding others.

How 'bout THEM apples?

Wang

In general lie about little things if it will make the person feel better, but about big stuff you gotta come clean and tell the truth.

I think sometimes there is a fine line between telling the truth to be upfront and get it all on the table and being honest to unburden yourself and lay your shite on someone else.

Truth, honesty and integrity are tricky business.

Bear

Where's the deep thought forum?

I believe to be 100% honest when it really matters.

Lies of omission are mandatory to get through the day without the world hating you. Think of Jim Carrey in Lair Lair when he walks through his office unable to lie. but it is the truth. If only we could say everything we are thinking to people...what a different world it would be.

more later...

Honest, always

If she asks you if the dress makes her look fat, be honest.

No it's not the dress.

I am telling the truth. That statement is a lie.

Its like when I'm right, I'm right, when I'm wrong, I could have been right, so I'm still right 'cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry 'cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but if I'm right...

I guess my bottom line or my point is that I think we are better off to persue integrity in our relationships with people. Honest is often then best path to integrity but not always. Sometimes we skew the truth, sometimes we are lying to ourselves. Sometimes we have been fooled into believing a false truth. Honesty is over rated. Integrity is what's lacking out there. I can tell someone I honestly think they are an azzhole but there's not much integrity in that in my mind. Very honest and maybe 6 out of 10 people would appreciate the honesty but I'm not advancing anything. Karma is a mutha. What you put out in this world does come back many times over. I'm sure DN can atest to that. It's nice to see other views on this. I'm not sure why but it's been on my mind quite a bit lately. Maybe I'm getting readyu to lie to someone or maybe I subconsciously know I'm being lied too. Hmmm.....


Bear.