Texas Hold'em $0.50-$1 NL (real money), hand #486,221,025
Table Columbus, 15 May 2006 6:27 PM ET

Seat 1: FoldnMuck ($51.75 in chips)
Seat 2: cmarc ($46.20 in chips)
Seat 3: Smyth_Alive ($49.50 in chips)
Seat 4: Damirka1 ($101.35 in chips)
Seat 5: DreaddLord ($67.05 in chips)
Seat 6: philophysics ($52.60 in chips)
Seat 7: xx pacino ($28.50 in chips)
Seat 8: scott3705 [ JS,JH ] ($64.25 in chips)
Seat 9: ChipNAChair4 ($42.75 in chips)
Seat 10: cookielady1 ($30.30 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
scott3705 posts blind ($0.25), ChipNAChair4 posts blind ($0.50).

PRE-FLOP
cookielady1 calls $0.50, cmarc calls $0.50, Smyth_Alive bets $2, xx pacino calls $2, scott3705 bets $8, Smyth_Alive calls $6.25, xx pacino calls $6.25.

FLOP [board cards 8C,5C,4S ]
scott3705 bets $20, Smyth_Alive calls $20, xx pacino bets $20.25 and is all-in, scott3705 calls $0.25, Smyth_Alive calls $0.25.

TURN [board cards 8C,5C,4S,10D ]
scott3705 checs, Smyth_Alive bets $21, scott3705 folds.



I have j j

I think its a bad fold... your getting 5-1 on your money with an overpair... I like making a crying call here.

I gotta admit, part of my decision is because it is such low stakes and I think he plays 66 / 77 / 99 / AK clubs or A 10 clubs exactly the same way.

It is probably a purists fold, but for me, at these stakes (i.e. this level of player) I make the call and curse my indiscipline.

I'm not sure what you're folding for here unless you know that he would just call hitting that board big and not worry about protecting a made hand from a flush draw.

My reasoning is that almost any hand other than the 6c7c would reraise you on that flop to protect, so it would come back to whether I thought I was ahead of him preflop. If so, stick it.

I hope he showed down 10-10.

eh, something to be said for that.



I'm folding to a set, or more likely in my head an overpair. that's willing to bet into a dry side pot here.

I'm sort of beating my head into a wall playing .25/.50. I told myself, I was going to have the discipline to build my roll up because the wifey won't let me put money back into sites and she also makes withdraws on it every week and only leaves me w/ my roll. I'm just getting frustrated as hell, because whenever I decide to call and trying to pick off a donk, I'm crushed and whenever I've folded, i've seen a bluff.

Edit: I also seem to find it hilarious that since beginning to use poker tracker, I always seem to find 30% PF raiser who wakes up with AA and KK.

I dont see anything wrong here, but playing JJ or any decent PP, OOP sucks balls.

I was thinking of ways for you not to commit AS MUCH money, but it seems impossible, unless you choose to play your hand very passively PF.

Would anyone here, flat call JJ in the SB?

Dear Scott,

Don't over think it. JJ is good here more times than you'd think.

Sincerely,

Erik

P.s. Bet the turn.

To be honest with you, in a cash game ( especially online ) i tend to play jacks like they were a pair of 3's or 5's. Try to flop a set with them and try not to lose a ton of money with it. From what ive seen a lot of people in a cash game, be it live or online, will call a raise with a lot of hands that would have your jacks crushed at that point.( i.e 6/7, 88, 55,44, 4/5. maybe even QQ or KK etc... ) Pick a better spot and get your money in when you know your opponent is drawing slim to beat you. Just dont over commit yourself to the pot, but in this case i think you already did that so i would of made the crying call at that point and sucked it up and learned from it. Good luck in the future

How can we not bet the turn here? Are we giving up cause it appears like it? You just led the flop for $20 and check the turn when it isn't really a scary card. OK now we need to get it all in on the turn. I'm guessing a flush draw is out there maybe 2 flush draws. We gotta finish what we started.




Why especially online?

Also this is a way to miss out on a lot of money.

So Jacks usually arent good on a 10 5 2 rainbow board? Umm playing jacks like 3s and 5s is a big mistake, way too big of a pair to play for just set value

I flatcall with JJ out of position if the table calls for it. A raise out of the blinds signals a lot of strength, but a lot of (most?) opponents at this level are not going to see it as a strong move. Honestly, I think you want to take this pot down preflop with JJ in the small blind, so I just flatcall if the chances of my opponents folding are slim. It makes for hard decisions after the flop, but I am confident I can outplay my opponents post-flop. I also look to keep the pot small. I am not looking to build a huge pot out of position with a vulnerable hand.

As played, I push the flop after the quarter reraise all-in. I have no idea with what someone raises preflop, calls a preflop reraise with another to act behind, calls a bet on the flop, and calls a slight all-in reraise on that flop. It could be AA or 10 10, but I think it is just as likely to be AK, A10, AQ, 99, etc. at these levels. Does he raise preflop with pairs lower than 10s? If not, we are only worried about that set. I do not see any two pair combinations that make sense given his raise preflop. Yep, I close my eyes, push, and hope to see A10.

At these levels, I would flat call JJ from the SB. If I've got position, then I like the raise.

In this particular hand (as played), I'd be willing to call off my last $20 on the turn, so I'd go ahead and lead out. Having said that, at $0.25/$0.50, I think you are beat here more often than not (particularly given you have two other people involved instead of just one).

For this hand, I think I would have flat called pre-flop and then check/raised on the flop. If I got a called, I'd try to see a cheap showdown.

With a non threatning card comming on the turn I really don't understand why we don't push here?

I push this turn everytime with these stack sizes.

I'm going to agree that we are good here enough to call 5 to 1.

QQ *might* play as passively as your opponents did to your significant re-raise, but that's about the only hand to be worried about.

I see why the 10 makes you fold though, because you're thinking your opponents have to be in the 66-TT range and you only beat 66,77, and 99 at this point, and 66 & 77 has significant outs.

I still think you need to see the river. More often than not one of your opponents has AK/AQ, if not both, and the other has pp which we can be confident we had beat pre-flop.

Look, we're oop. Smyth is our biggest worry because he raised (albeit min), so we can put him on a pckt pair or a very slowplayed KK-AA. I think we call preflop bet with JJ. We bet the pot on the flop ($6). a. We get 2 flat calls. We bet turn, get raised, and fold. b. We get raised on flop, we re-raise min, we get an allin, we fold. I think we still save a little more money either way.

GIVEN that we did what we did here, I AGREE with checking the turn here. We are very likely beat after Smyth calls our flop bet. Turn DOESN'T MATTER. There was a lot of "oh it's not a scare card" in this thread, but the "scare" was the flop cold-call. We are killed here by everything possible except a donk A-10. Smyth will NOT BE BLUFFING. He has a player allin and will have to show down his hand if he pushes our hero out. Scott, you did the right thing.

I didn't even address how I woulda played the entire hand I kinda went w/ the way Scott chose to play it pf.

What I disagree w/ is the turn check. I just don't see any justification for it. Its a surrender after a $20 flop lead. So your saying there is no possible way (NOT BE BLUFFING) that Smyth has AK or AQ of clubs. Cause you would be wrong and even if original all in has us beat we need to take the side pot at the very minimum.

Here's my thinking.


67, 44, 55, 88, 10-10, QQ, KK, AA pwn us.


We are just over 2-1 favs against AK/AQ/A10 suited.


Smyth with made hand bets into us on turn when we check. He likely is not on a draw, as we know he has to show down and would take a free card for sure.

If we bet into him, he calls, we are pot-committed on the river.

Smyth raises a turn bet, we fold, having lost more money..unless we call the raise as well, getting some odds.


To me, the flop call from Smyth was all the info we needed. I need to see what we gain from betting on the turn here, Krup. We are only gaining value against a small # of reasonable hands that we can beat by betting, and we are just burning our money betting into someone that has us creamed.

K

First off he is already pot committed he is in for nearly 70% of his stack post flop. He isn't folding.

There is no need to analyze a raise, reraise situation or us folding. We led the flop for $20, turn card is basically irrelevant since it is a non-club. Smythe has $21 left. There is no reason to not try and at least take HIS $21 here.

Taking a shot getting 5-1 w/ an overpair is never burning money. Again this whole entire hand I woulda played totally different but I'm trying to analyze Scott's thinking.

How would you have gone about the hand from the start Krup? I agree with your decision on the turn btw..

Yeah, I'm sorry for this thread as well as the AK thread. I had been tilting like a mother ****** for the past week and tended to post crap when i got pissed off.

Villian has QQ here. Dont analyze this hand, it's just garbage.

I definitely would've just called the preflop bet of 4x BB. Reraising to 16x the BB OOP can become disasterous. We are definitely gonna lead any "safe" flop for a strong bet once we raise it up like that.

Scott provided no reads which maybe he had on the original raiser and this is why he pumped pf so hard. Against an unknown I don't really see the reason behind this.

After I smooth called the pf raise I would lead for 3/4 of the pot. Now if someone comes over the top I can get away.

Also Smythe was the initial raiser in the pot do we have a range of hands. AQ and AK sooted are definitely possible to open and call the large reraise.




Yeah kinda outta ur character here

You weren't tilting last nite when you won 3+ buyins on that PLO table of donks.

I agree with this. While JJ is a great hand, I like to have an escape plan if the flop or turn make the hand dangerous.

Sorry. Read on Villian: HE'S GOT A 25% PF RAISE PERCETANGE. Edit: over 350 hands.

you stalking me Krup? hahaha. no fair. i don't even know your sn, because I think it was different than your forum name. possibly Krupand... (something)

no I just happened to jump into some PLO and saw you there and then BAM you tripled up in one hand it was sweet. sometimes i check the NL tables for ya. I'm krupnugz, I actually sat w/ you at the NL tables for a few hands as well.

Yeah, i'm not in a good frame of mind to play NL now. It hasn't really hit my bankroll at all, cause i keep enough to playt he 1/2 game for awhile. For some reason, playing the .25/.50 on FCP started making my head spin. Trying to just reassess and see how much of it was me, how much was the cards, and how much was me after the cards.
Sticking to LHE, PLO and MTT & SNGs for the time being.

Yeah the $50 NL tables can wear on ya. $50 PLO is a goldmine though I just no that great at it yet.

Also you and I were both at the same table a lot of a MTT the other day. You cashed just in the money and I finished 24th or something. You tried to steal my blind 3x and I reraised you and pushed you off. You were 2 seats to my right.

ha. I'm def. gonna have to look out for you. Should have said hi and been polite. I've done half way decent in MTT's lately. I've been moneying pretty frequently. It's been right around 50-60% over the last 15. I've only gotten to one FT though which was a small tourney of only 120 and only paid out like 250 or something like that.

I've been doing that a lot. I'm in a phase now of playing MTT's more aggressive than i think they should be played, because I was playing them too tight in the recent past. looking to find the middle ground somewhere.

Yeah the MTTs here are very easy. Even the 50+4s are not hard, just a lot of land mines. I've played around 150 MTTs here and have cashed in 70 with 12 final tables and no firsts but 4 seconds. My best cast was for around 900 in a 30+3. Honestly the MTTs are a gold mine if you can dodge the landmines. I'll say hi next time.