To quote smash from like 2 months ago, "yeah, i like cheese."

Heh...he's ignorant of the history?

Paul wasn't an apostle. The gospels were not written at the same time. Constantine is important outside of a crappy book. Of course the Christian community was thriving by the time he converted...it wouldn't do him any good to convert to an illegal cult if they weren't everywhere. Luke's gospel, as well as the rest, were likely written down after Paul's death.

Not bad...averaging about one factual inaccuracy a sentence...

I've read that book. I also read a couple others that the author, Lee Strobel, wrote: A Case For A Creator, which puts up a strong case for the whole Creationism vs Darwinism argument. It shoots alot of holes in Darwin's evolutionary theory about how life on this planet began, and how there must be an "Intelligent Designer" behind things. Mr. Strobel's other book, A Case For Faith, takes the story of Jesus one step further and explains who he was, what he was about and proves how he could perform the "miracles" that he did. If you are searching for answers on the meaning of this life, I would strongly suggest picking up these three books, as they have very good information, and answer alot of the questions that humans have been asking throughout history.

You can find the book at any major bookseller (i.e: Barnes & Noble, Boarders Bookstore..." The author is Lee Strobel. Good luck!

So how many of you have had a change of heart either way due to this colossal waste of energy. 2:1 says zero.

Don't come at me with the, "If it's a waste of time why did you read it?" Because I didn't. I went straight to "post reply" Seriously, do you think you're really going to change someone's core beliefs via an online forum :roll:

Its not about changing anyones mind or beliefs. Its just about having a discussion or an argument. It is healthy and stimulating and may bring to light new ideas some may never had heard of. Its basic human nature to discuss something as important as this.

I, for one, have never heard some of the things mentioned in this thread and I certainly never heard of the book that Daniel is offering to send to people. I am a pure agnostic. I really have no idea one way or another. But I love reading about religion and look forward to reading this book.

I don't think anyone really believed they would change someone's mind during this discussion. Just making an argument for what they believe.

I don't chew people out for not believing, it's not my place to. However if they attended a live debate between a Christian and an atheist I think they would see that again and again, it's the atheist that has a deep faith in random coincidence while a knowledgeable Christian shows Christ's existense as the more likely possibility.


It's your website and everything, and I repect your oppinions, but that's not even vaguely accurate.

Letting alone the obvious fallacy that more faith is required to believe what evidence shows than to believe what there is no evidence of, there is the fact that Christians rarely debate atheists because it's impossible. They merely ask questions that have no foundation in reason and play only to the emotions and fears of their audience.

The bible is replete with contradiction and the case for a specefic judeo-Christian god is laughable to anyone evaluating it based on fact as opposed to sentiment.

The only thing that I would mention about Christianity and poker is that poker is unfortunately a sin in the state of Georgia, but not in the state of Nevada. While I think it's baloney that the state of Georgia is allowed to operate legal lotteries to fund merit-based scholarships for college while cash games are strictly illegal, Christiasn are nevertheless bound by Paul's letter to the Roman church, ch. 13, v.1ff. It says, "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God." I figure there are two instances, broadly defined, when a Christian can legitimately exercise civil disobedience: 1) when the state is expressing forbidding the Christian from doing something which his religious requires (ex: evangelism). 2) when the state requires the Christian to do something that his religion explicitly fobids (ex: sacrifice to idols, worship other religion's gods, etc.). As much I've tried, via theological acrobatics, to make poker an obligation via divine fiat, I have been unsucccessful, and so feel compelled to quit my regular cash game.

Out of curiousity, where can I learn about the policy environment and changes in the policy environment that affect gambling laws by states? Is there a lobbying group for casinos, and if so, how successful have they been in getting gambling laws relaxed?

What's the puropse of discussing somethingif your not trying to convert the other person to your side? Boredom? Nothing else to do? At least admit that these internet religious posts are about one upsmanship and nothing more.

He doesn't care whether God exists? Paul Philips is so full of his own hubris...

That aside, it's an interesting credo but it certainly leaves a elephant standing in the middle of the room -- what exactly does it mean to be a "good person"? Organized religions answer this question a little too definitively for my taste, but I also don't think it's enough to just make it up as you go along. Science is no guide either.

BTW, I think a better term for this philosophy would be benevolent agnosticism.

Again it is always comical to see where exactly you say your qettin gyour info from. Based of of matching up the different historical events that took place and historical leaders it has been shown that the Bible was finished by around AD 95...so kinda makes no sense what your sayin now does it

'Great example, The Pope got a tracheotomy because of the flu, right, the flu lasts for 7 to 10 days. More disinformation courtesy of the Vatican. "


Yes the pope had this done to assist with his breathing after he had the flu. Maybe when you are 84 years old with Parkinson's, you might have a little trouble handling illness and therefore have more side effects as a result of that illness. I respect everyone's point of view but as a general note please back up your points with actual facts and not random garbage.

It takes more faith to think that magically something appeared from nothing to start the big bang? Last time i checked if you have a perfect vacuum with nothing in it..no molecules atoms or anything else...nothing will appear no matter how much you hope for it.

Then lets look at some of that science that you seem to base your faith that there is no God on. If just one part out of 10^120 was different Id show the zeros but thats a whole lot of zeros after that one. Basically since this is a place full of people who understand gambling odds..Its like winning the lottery over and over. We are not here. Another example. Lets look at carbon...which is a huge part of most material.

"The formation of carbon sits on a knife edge of uuncertaintiy. To form carbon, radioactiver beryllium (element number 4) must absorb a nucleus of helium (elemnt 2) and build to elemtent 6 carbon. Seems easy right. we all learned that in high school. But there is a big problem with it. See radioactive beryllium has a life of 10^-16 seconds. that would be .0000000000000001 of a second. Yet somehow carbon is the 4th most abundant element on this earth."

So to say that it takes more faith to believe that a God created us then to believe that all these millions of random occurrances just happened is an interesting question. Since this is poker...I woudl say its like winning 10^120 hands in a row. just isnt gonna happen

What is this topic about? Poker?

Smash, you could learn a lot from Jesus.











I bet he stomped the microlimits back in the day.

Religion is just like poker. Some people do things totally different and other people dont agree. (raising in the dark, checking the nuts on the river, betting into a calling station with absolutely nothing, etc.) Just let it go people, being different is what makes us human.

I have no idea what you're saying right now.

I will back off my earlier assertion that Paul was unfamiliar with the gospel of Luke. I thought that the gospel was written after Paul's death (65-67 CE), but it's possible that it was written in the early 60's. Doesn't mean he read it, but he could have.

1Timothy 5:18 For the Scripture says, "YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING," and "The laborer is worthy of his wages."

Luke 10:7 "Stay in that house, eating and drinking what they give you; for the laborer is worthy of his wages. Do not keep moving from house to house.

Youll notice here that in 1 Timothy Paul references a line from Lukes Gospel. So it seems to imply that he had read it

Sorry I wasnt clear on the other comment I made earlier but Im studyin for a test too so my focus isnt 100%. There have been several copies found dating around 3rd century. And even a few dating to AD 170. Which they use to make sure that the versions we have today are still in line with what was written then. So to say that it has gone off track and been changed is shown to be wrong. So to say that Constantine put together the Bible and is the major influence of it seems to deny all the text that was together before he even got ahold of it. All he did was help the growth of it. He isnt responsible for it. Its the exact same as when the European nations set up their Churches. The didnt start the religion they jsut made it more widespread

Okay, now I see what you're saying.

Never said Constantine put together the bible or any of that. Just said that he made Christianity the religion of the empire.

Like people have previously stated, y'all take what has been written down far too literally. When the Bible was written it was a vastly different time, there were no real laws against things of this nature versus today's world where there are laws against physical abuse. It may have been socially acceptable to discipline your child in such a way and having not lived in that time none of us would know.

Also, have you thought about the use of the words "rods" and "strike" and "punish" being used as metaphors for merely keeping your child in line by disciplining him...The "rod of discipline" could be anything in this circumstance not purely a rod that one uses to discipline their child (hit). Metaphors are used in everyday life where one will say "Yeah I beat the $hit out of him"...In many cases it means simply that you beat him in whatever competition you are participating in.

Much of what the Bible preaches is used in metaphorical language meaning to be applied to one's life.

So to say that it takes more faith to believe that a God created us then to believe that all these millions of random occurrances just happened is an interesting question. Since this is poker...I woudl say its like winning 10^120 hands in a row. just isnt gonna happen


You're joking, right?

You're saying the thing with no evidence at all is more likely than the thing with evidence....

It's like saying that a metor hitting the same town twice, a statistically unlikely but possible event takes more faith to belive than that a giant dragon came and shat out flaming turds at it.

Do you really want to your argument to be that ludicrously laughable?

But, you see, betting into a calling station with nothing is wrong, just like the assumption that God exists is wrong. We are our own gods.

:clap: :clap: :clap: Great post, I stood up and applauded. Congratulations on the pregnancy, I sincerely hope all turns out well!

No evidence?

i have 29000 copies of the Bible some dating before Christ and some dating about a century after his time. Where is ur proof that nothing came from nothing? Your analogy is based on there being a dragon. Well nobody has ever mentioned a dragon ever existing in this world. So that just wont do. It is laughable that you sit there and deny that there is no evidence of Jesus when even some of the most respected Atheists will admit that He lived. What I find funny is that everybody tries to make Jesus out to have been such a nobody yet he has had a more lasting impact in this world then just about any other person.

Oh oh...I haven't checked recently, but last time I was there, I was making fun or Mormons too...

Is it coincidence that we happen to be just the right distance from the sun, so that plants and animals and ourselves can all live together? Is it coincidence that our atmosphere is just the right distance and mixture of gases so that we can breathe the air. Is it a coincidence that the air we breathe in is transformed in our lungs, heart, and capillaries into energy that we need to survive?

Actually it's not a coincidence. That's we're alive, because the environment we are living in is just right for the sustainment of life. If it wasn't, we wouldn't be posting on this topic because we wouldn't exist.

i have 29000 copies of the Bible some dating before Christ and some dating about a century after his time. Where is ur proof that nothing came from nothing? Your analogy is based on there being a dragon. Well nobody has ever mentioned a dragon ever existing in this world. So that just wont do. It is laughable that you sit there and deny that there is no evidence of Jesus when even some of the most respected Atheists will admit that He lived. What I find funny is that everybody tries to make Jesus out to have been such a nobody yet he has had a more lasting impact in this world then just about any other person.


So you have evidence in the form of Bibles dating before Christ that mention Christ and that proves he exists?

Yikes. You're not off your medication or something, are you?

Lots of people have mentioned Dragons existing, by the way.

Frankly it's a lot more plausable than a virgin birth and a resurection.

Also you're missing the point that I'm not in any way saying I know how the universe began. I don't.

You see, I'm not the sort of fearfull mushvrained fool who has to seek out an explination for everything. I'm fine with not knowing. I don't feel compelled to create explinations for things I don't understand, or to accept explinations others created.

What's so bad about saying "no one kows" when it's the reality?

How did the universe begin? No one knows. How did life begin? No one knows. What happens when we die? No one knows.

See, easy.

It's sad and pathetic that you'd be so terrified of simply saying "No one knows" that you're willig to accept explinations concoted by people who thought animal sacrafice controlled the weather.

By the way, there's no objective historical evidence of Christ ever having existed *at all*. None of the contemporary histories written at the time mention him in the slightest.

Odd that, don't you think? He doesn't show up in any historical doccuments untill *centuries* after his death. Later on, in the middle ages, Christians became aware of this little problem and attempted to add Christ into the histories of the times to avoid the ebarassing prospect that the Son of God who they worshipped had been made up Ad Hoc by a cult. These forgeries are easily identifiable and porly carried out.

/shrug.

I could care less if he existed or not, but the perponderance of evidence says that he didn't. Fortunately for me, I don't have a large portion of my belief system tied into if he did or didn't.

God bless you smasharoo

smash for once i agree with you---god this si a poker forum give me a break man talking about hocus pocus and BS ---iy you have faith great that is up to you ---whether you believe or don't believe is up to you---seperation of poker and church and state. Guy go preach to somebody who wants to hear it. Daniel is Daniel if his faith helped him great if not then that sucks but whether you are jewish catholic protestant muslim buddhist itis about faith that is up tothat person talk poker this is a joke and makes me sick

haha the mods are probably gonna censor the word god. Maybe change it into Daniel Negreanu?

First, congratulations on the baby. You must be proud.

Second, I'de like to pick apart your post. :-)

Is it coincidence that we are the precise distance from the sun for living? What is the precise disntace? The earth was here first. We evolved to meet the conditions. Know what i'm saying?
Have you ever heard of parallel universes? They exist. It's proven. You have a dopalganger 10^10^118 meters away. Why would go create two of the same people? For that matter, an infinite amount of the same people? The only difference between you and your dopalganger is the choices you make and the time you existed. Wierd, huh? On parallel universes physics can be different, CO2 which is poisonous to humans could be the life support for other beings. They evolve and adapt.

About the autmosphere and the fact that lungs can use oxygen and what not, it all has to do with evolution. One cell organisms evolved to adapt to what was avaliable to them. On this planet, it was oxygen.

Humans are not the only creatures on the planet that think analytically. Monkeys can, too. I seen a special where they put a monkey in a big huge cage and tied bannanas to the top. They were out of reach. In the cage they put 2 box's 3 pieces to a fishing pole and other junk. The monkey, through trial and error, stacked the two boxs on top of each other, screwed the fishing pole pieces together and knocked down the bannanas. Humans are not the only creatures that think emotionally either. I assume you've had a dog before. When you come home, are they not happy to see you? Do they not show fear or anger or sadness?

As for suicide, animals have evolved to have a natural instinct of survival. Ours has gone over time as survival has changed meanings. Evolution. Did you know that ESP is real and alive in humans and animals? Evolution has blunted the instinct in humans, but a dog can still tell when it's master is coming home when he's still miles away. Plaines that crash have more revoked tickets that any other. Statistical fact. ESP. We used to be able to tell if something happened to a loved one, the expantion of communication and other technologies have blunted ESP as we don't need it anymore.

Google parallel universes and ESP. Tell me if you find anything interesting.

read the elegant universe...


its alot of fun

Is it coincidence that we happen to be just the right distance from the sun, so that plants and animals and ourselves can all live together? Is it coincidence that our atmosphere is just the right distance and mixture of gases so that we can breathe the air. Is it a coincidence that the air we breathe in is transformed in our lungs, heart, and capillaries into energy that we need to survive? Is it coincidence that we as humans are the only creatures on the planet who can think analytically, emotionally, and know of our own existence and take that existence away at anytime (suicide)?


Consiring the size of the universe and the massive insignifigance of something the size of Earth in it, I'd say it's just probably that at least one place of all the places that exist would spawn life.

Is it cooincindence if I drop a bilion ping balls from a mile in the air onto a billion shot glasses that one of the ping pong balls lands presciely in one of the shot glasses, or is that ping pong ball ordained by god to land in that holy shot glass.

You people realy don't have much of a grasp of probability, do you?

Isn't that about quantim physics and parallel universes?

People can walk through walls and what not.

If that's what you're talking about, it's very interesting.

y'all.

the thing is we do know how the earth was created, God created it. its in the book of Genesis. the only reason people debate with non-believers is because its our duty as Christians to try to bring others to our God. so while it may seem that we are arguing with you smash we just want you to see what we see. we will all have to meet our creator one day. and may God bless those that don't believe.

its all about string theory and our 11 (i think its 11.. been a while) dimesional universe.... has great examples of how this works (cuz its really hard to concieve), and visualizes it very well.


it then elaborates into how the "strings" form gigantic membranes, which , themselves, are huge universes.... they are parallel to each other in some higher form of existence (almost like gigantic movie screens, where existance is the matinee).... the theory goes on to explain singularities, and the big bang from its perspective....

then your head explodes.


but its very intellectually stimulating, and a great read.....

discusses alot of the same topics as hawking, but in a more readable fashion....


if ya hit a bookstore, i'd check it out.... that and the illustrated hardcover versions of "universe in a nutshell" and "a brief history of time".... the illustrations make it alot easier to read some of the more mind-boggling parts.

hehe perfect name/avatar for this topic. but unfortunately you're going to burn in the fiery pits of hell for worshipping the wrong god. hehe.

but its very intellectually stimulating, and a great read


It's really, really, dumbed down, and slightly out of date.

M-theory has come a long way since then.

It's still nothing that can proven experimentally yet, so it's really a lot closer to a philsophy than a scientific discpline.

At the moment.

In 100 years it'll either be the fundemental concept that drives out understanding of the universe or an embarassing footnote that a lot of theoricians wasted a lot of time and energy on.

What does the "M" stand for?

Isn't it true that noone knows?

i'll give it less than 100 years..

CERN's particle accellerator should come around alot sooner than that


and dumbed down as it may be, its a start for someone who has never even heard of the theories its all about

The M is usually taken to stand for "Membrane"

beat me to the punch, as usual :-)


membranes = the enlarged strings that the universes dwell upon as i mentioned earlier

I always have read it as having the M stand for Mother of all theories or Mystery, because the planet we call M-theory is still largely unexplored.

But I guess my knowledge is outdated...or I didn't pay close enough attention. Whatever.

it could be...

it is known as "the theory of everything"

hey smash...or anyone who knows for that matter

i have just started learning about all this in the last year..

any recommendations on some more up to date literature on the subject?

Just to note, I am not religious at all, I don't believe in god or hocus pocus. But I DO think something happens after we die, spiritually. Even when we do die there is no way we would even know about it because if there is no life after death, there is no waiting around. You would cease to exist! I've heard about this parallel universe idea a few times, actually many times. My question is:

Theoretically is it possible for me to be dead on the other universe? Like, I could be out right now at 12:06 ****ing a hooker and getting loaded on heroine, then when I walk out to get a bucket of ice I get loosed full of 10 rounds of lead?

Or would I be sitting here on the poker forum typing this word, now this word, now this word, now this word, now this word????

I think this post was a joke...but I like talking about it. Yes, it's possible that your dopalganger is dead. He may have lived thousands of years ago. Or, he may not have been born yet. But, he could be writing on some forum about he same topic as you...the same exact words at the same exact desk. Then again, maybe not. It's neat.

if i knew that, i wouldnt be posting on this site...

i would be multitabling every table on every site in existence.... 6 in each universe.


actually, universe 173844A has a great triple draw pot limit crazy stud with a live straddle going.... but that one hasnt made this universe yet.