I have 23,000 chips in cutoff
Dealer has 8500
BB has 40,000
average is 9000
blinds are 300/600
Folded to me in cutoff, i raise to 2000 with A7
Dealer calls, sb folds, bb calls
flop is 456 rainbow, bb checks, i bet 6000, dealer is all in for 6500, bb check raises all in.
so the pot is giving me 2.6:1, I figure I have 11 outs with my ace, but the bb is a donkey and has the chip lead at the table only because he's catching cards. I called, bb had K6, dealer had 1010, I missed everything and bb hit a king to come back from 16%.
Anyway, my friend suggested I could fold and take my 15,000 and wait for a better spot. I say there's few better spots than that, and I had 14 outs twice on the side pot. Thoughts please.
As an aside, is the bb allowed to raise after checking when the all in is 500 more? I know there's a rule that kind of sounds like that situation. I know the "can't raise your own raise" rule but there's another one and I think this is it.
Full Version: I'm Right, Right?
dealer should have pushed preflop. 10/10 against two people is no good.
Id fold. You really want to be the pusher not the caller with just a draw.
Id fold. You really want to be the pusher not the caller with just a draw.
Fold.
A7?
A7 loses against TT.
You lost to both hands.
that is bad play.
A7?
A7 loses against TT.
You lost to both hands.
that is bad play.
why not check the flop?
i donīt think this is a good spot for a continuation bet. with two people calling your initial raise, thereīs a good chance someoneīs holding a small or mid pp, and theyīre not going away. if you check you either get a free card, or both players act before itīs back to you and you can evaluate what odds you are getting then.
also, i wouldnīt give myself 11 outs in that situation. itīs certainly improbable that thereīs already a made straight out there, but your ace-outs could be dead and a set would give you some cards to dodge even if you hit. i think around 8.5 outs is a realistic estimate. so, fold.
i donīt think this is a good spot for a continuation bet. with two people calling your initial raise, thereīs a good chance someoneīs holding a small or mid pp, and theyīre not going away. if you check you either get a free card, or both players act before itīs back to you and you can evaluate what odds you are getting then.
also, i wouldnīt give myself 11 outs in that situation. itīs certainly improbable that thereīs already a made straight out there, but your ace-outs could be dead and a set would give you some cards to dodge even if you hit. i think around 8.5 outs is a realistic estimate. so, fold.
Fuck. I'm a donkey. But do you call once it's 40000:15000?
You bet the pot against two players with A high and an OESD where one player hadn't acted yet and the other guy is the chip leader?
First, bet about half the pot - you'll get the same results as betting the pot, and you'll get a more appropriate price on your OESD.
But, more importantly, why continuation bet here at all? Is this just something you always do when you lead preflop?
And giving yourself 11 outs here is a stretch...first, you only beat A2 and A3, so your Ace outs are suspect...second, your Ace outs are dead to a set...third, you're not playing to the best straight....fourth, you could be drawing to a chop.
Yeah, it turns out that this time you had 11 outs 14 outs in the side pot...there are many times here where you have 6-8 outs, or are drawing dead.
In most cases I count 6-8 outs here - I count 8 outs, and also may discount for their outs if you do hit your hand.
To answer your other question...the BB checked and you bet $6000, and the button bet $6500...the BB is facing a full bet from you and may, therefore, reraise whatever he wants, even though the button didn't put in a full raise.
Where it wouldn't be allowed would be if you bet $6000, BB called $6000, button raised all-in $6500 and you called the extra $500 (you can't reraise here)...the BB could only call or fold. But in your example he is still allowed to act against your initial bet, because you did bet the minimum requirement, and he hasn't acted against THAT bet yet.
First, bet about half the pot - you'll get the same results as betting the pot, and you'll get a more appropriate price on your OESD.
But, more importantly, why continuation bet here at all? Is this just something you always do when you lead preflop?
And giving yourself 11 outs here is a stretch...first, you only beat A2 and A3, so your Ace outs are suspect...second, your Ace outs are dead to a set...third, you're not playing to the best straight....fourth, you could be drawing to a chop.
Yeah, it turns out that this time you had 11 outs 14 outs in the side pot...there are many times here where you have 6-8 outs, or are drawing dead.
In most cases I count 6-8 outs here - I count 8 outs, and also may discount for their outs if you do hit your hand.
To answer your other question...the BB checked and you bet $6000, and the button bet $6500...the BB is facing a full bet from you and may, therefore, reraise whatever he wants, even though the button didn't put in a full raise.
Where it wouldn't be allowed would be if you bet $6000, BB called $6000, button raised all-in $6500 and you called the extra $500 (you can't reraise here)...the BB could only call or fold. But in your example he is still allowed to act against your initial bet, because you did bet the minimum requirement, and he hasn't acted against THAT bet yet.
I think you're just overestimating how much you need to bet to get someone off a hand, and as such, you're committing yourself to the pot way too easily. I would have raised to between 1500 and 1800 preflop, and then on the flop, I'd probably lead for around half the pot. That way, if your opponents have nothing, they'll get out of your way, and if they do hit something, it won't take your entire stack to find out.
Given the action though, I think calling the raise is fine. I'd give you credit for 8 clean outs here, and getting 2.6 to 1, that does give you the right odds to call.
Given the action though, I think calling the raise is fine. I'd give you credit for 8 clean outs here, and getting 2.6 to 1, that does give you the right odds to call.
Nothing wrong with your pre-flop play IMO.
On the flop, betting about 1/2 to 3/4's of the pot will get you the same information much cheaper, AND make it easier for you to fold if raised. Also, I definately would not be including aces as outs, as you can only beat A 2 or A 3. Maybe count them as 1/2 an out in total IMO. So, based on the correct outs, and having bet only 1/2 - 3/4's of the pot, its a very easy fold.
On the flop, betting about 1/2 to 3/4's of the pot will get you the same information much cheaper, AND make it easier for you to fold if raised. Also, I definately would not be including aces as outs, as you can only beat A 2 or A 3. Maybe count them as 1/2 an out in total IMO. So, based on the correct outs, and having bet only 1/2 - 3/4's of the pot, its a very easy fold.
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