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Drwnded
Very first hand of Stars Sunday Million dollar tourney 2-3 weeks ago, blinds 10-20 with stacks of 2500 I believe. Around 6000 entrants in the tourney.

I'm dealt KJo on the button. EP1, MP1, MP2, and I all call. SB completes, BB checks.

Flop K J 8, with two clubs.

Action is checked to me and I make a pot-sized bet. SB folds, BB check-raises all-in, and it's folded back to me.

Your play?
XXEddie
QUOTE (Drwnded @ Tuesday, May 2nd, 2006, 1:00 PM) *
Very first hand of Stars Sunday Million dollar tourney 2-3 weeks ago, blinds 10-20 with stacks of 2500 I believe. Around 6000 entrants in the tourney.

I'm dealt KJo on the button. EP1, MP1, MP2, and I all call. SB completes, BB checks.

Flop K J 8, with two clubs.

Action is checked to me and I make a pot-sized bet. SB folds, BB check-raises all-in, and it's folded back to me.

Your play?


unless the BB has 88 your winning

call
anselm
Fold pre-flop.
gobears
You have take some chances to build a big pot in these things. I would call and hope that he doesn't have the set.

A lot of draws out there so he could be semi-bluffing with some type of straight/flush draw although if he has both, he might be ahead.
Suited_Up
QUOTE (gobears @ Tuesday, May 2nd, 2006, 9:40 PM) *
You have take some chances to build a big pot in these things. I would call and hope that he doesn't have the set.

A lot of draws out there so he could be semi-bluffing with some type of straight/flush draw although if he has both, he might be ahead.


Pretty much what he said.
mhoward29
QUOTE (anselm @ Tuesday, May 2nd, 2006, 4:34 PM) *
Fold pre-flop.
gobears
QUOTE (anselm @ Tuesday, May 2nd, 2006, 4:34 PM) *
Fold pre-flop.



I would not fold this preflop especially on the button. I would play gappers like 68, 810 here with deep stacks so there's no way I fold KJ with position.

You just have to have the discipline to play a small pot if you hit TP as someone could have you dominated and be able to fold to strength.
Kaedin
nothing wrong with KJ os on the button in an unraised pot.

BB probably has J8, id call:p Even if he has a set, you have some outs
PrtyPSux
QUOTE (anselm @ Tuesday, May 2nd, 2006, 10:34 PM) *
Fold pre-flop.



Id make it 100-120 PF.
HoosierAlum
I raise pf too.

Given the way you played I would call.
Drwnded
The reason I did not raise preflop is with that many limpers in the first hand of a tourney when everyone has deep stacks it is hard to limit the field. I'd have to raise to 150-200, and often with this move in this situation you'll still see the flop at least 3-4 handed. Since I'd have position after the flop, I just didn't want to build a huge pot preflop with a marginal hand against a bunch of players that I had no reads on. I think calling or folding were probably my best options here. If I had been in the SB, I might have made the big raise preflop to try to end the hand right there, not wanting to play this hand multiway out of position.

After the BB went all in, I knew I was only a dog to 88, 9c10c, or 10cQc (a set or an OESD + flush draw). Theoretically I was also a dog to JJ and KK, but I couldn't imagine he held either of these and didn't raise preflop out of position against a bunch of limpers. It was a relatively big buyin tourney, so I had to at least consider he had one of the hands to which I was behind, but statistically I knew it was much more likely he had something like a naked OESD or flush draw, or a pair+flush draw, or even a total bluff (there are plenty of donks even in higher buy-in tournies). With no read it was a lot harder, but I called. I was pleased to see he had the 9c5c, though he won the hand when he hit the flush on the turn and I failed to fill up. It does sting to bust out first hand.
mk
yeah, no one plays 88 this fast this early.
rog
QUOTE (mk @ Wednesday, May 3rd, 2006, 9:31 AM) *
yeah, no one plays 88 this fast this early.


I insta-call the all-in, and if it's 88, so be it. Probably a pair and a draw. I like the PF call this early, but a raise would be cool too.
anselm
What you do pre-flop depends on your philosophy of MTTs. Some people like to play a lot of hands early, gamble a little, and try to build a big stack. I just happen to disagree with this. Lay low and play uber-TAG. Stay out of trouble.

There will be plenty of time later to out-play your opponents. Deeper in the tourney I'm raising on the button here every time. If the situation's right, I'll raise with KJo UTG. I'll raise in LP with 45s. I just don't see the point early on though. The risk of going broke early outweighs the benefits. As if often quoted, "You're not going to win the tourney in level 1, so might as well not lose it then either." Why put yourself to a tough decision - and this is one - when there's nothing on the line?

There's 120 in the pot PF, right? You flop top two pair. So you bet 80 or 100 whatever and everyone folds. You've just netted 100 chips and are at 2600. Who cares? You've just won jackcrap. The potential to go broke - depending on the hands, skill, your discipline, etc - is relatively high.

Limping isn't horrible. I do think raising is horrible. WHY are you raising? For value? Are you kidding me? To clear some people out and gets HU with one opponent? Good luck with that man. You trying to steal blinds? If you do limp, I don't know what kind of flop you're looking for that you didn't get. Unless you were hoping to flop a straight or a boat, top two pair is pretty sexy. You hoped to hit big and double-up early so here you go, this is your big chance. Make the call and hope for the best.
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