Last night, 1/2 NL cash game. I have about $270 with Qc-10d. $7 raise preflop, 4 in. Flop comes 10-9-5, all clubs. 2 checks to me, I raise to $30. Guy behind me raises $50 more. 2 folds to me. Without hesitation, I push all-in for my remaining $230+ figuring I have top pair and lots of outs if he already has a smaller flush. He thinks for about 5 seconds and says "I have to call". He had me covered as he had about $500 in front of him.

He flips over Ac-10s. One of the 2 hands I really didn't want to see (the other obviously being the Kc-10x). No help and I'm busted.

Looking at this, I know I acted too quickly in pushing all-in, but I've seen this same guy fold really strong hands to big raises. Of course, he's usually already on his 2nd or 3rd buy-in at that point, not up $400 in his first 20 minutes at the table. I wanted to represent that I already had the flush, or I had a set, and was going to make him pay to see another club as I didn't think he flopped it (which I was right). He may have called anyway, but he's definitely not a flush chaser when he's down money. Regardless...

Besides taking more time to consider what he might have had, do you think I made a bad move with my push? I think my post flop bet could have been a sign that I was trying to buy the pot, possibly signaling to him that I wasn't very strong, thereby making his hand look all that much better. I wish I had check-raised him all-in instead to see if he would have laid his hand down.

I keep going back and forth on this one, thinking it was a decent play, then thinking it was a seriously bad play. For me it's all skewed by the result. I'm not sure if he was willing to gamble because of his stack size, or if he really thought about his own hand and it's potential. Anyway, it's really bothering me and I figured I'd get some other points of view.

So, if you have some advice please comment so I can actually learn something from this post. Sorry if I sound jaded, but I'm used to the assclowns in general forum who are only interested in flaming. I've been told that's not the case here.

Thanks for any info you can offer.

Change the title of the post to "Could I have played this any worse".

Seriously.

Take up checkers or something.

good luck.

please stop posting results.

he's calling 150 more into a 370 pot, right?

Given his flop raise, I think he likes his hand.

I'm all for pushing semi bluffs, but you need more fold equity and/or a better draw, you have neither.

that's my opinion.

Why are you playing QTo in a raised pot?

I'm dumping this PF. Just so that we don't get stuck on a weak top pair, or crappy flush draw.

well, I"m not against the preflop play... unless other participants all short stacks, but we need to flop a very strong hand to benefit from implied odds.

we don't have one.
And we don't have fold equity to speak of

Well, that's pretty much my point.

It's been said before that if the stacks are deep enough, any two cards can be played in NL.

However, in order for that to be profitable, we need to be quite good postflop. This entails not getting stuck when we have a hand like TP weak kicker, or a single card 3rd nut flush draw.

Basically, if you aren't good enough postflop, as I don't think many are, we shouldn't be playing these trap hands.

- Zach

Who did the raising preflop? What position are you in? I don't like calling the raise preflop out of position with that hand, especially when you are offsuit. There are too many ways to get yourself in trouble, and you found one. Also, on suited flops with multiple players still contesting you need to proceed with caution, and respect aggression as many people will play their low flopped flushes very fast. Discretion is the better part of valor. Slow down. You don't have to win every pot.

Has anybody told you that Qc-10d sucks?

It's ironic you're posting about this play, when almost every single poker book on the planet talks about hands like this, and K-J, K-10 being trap hands for this exact reason.

As usual, thanks for nothing Smash. You're a real credit to strategy forum.

To all the others who commented, thanks for providing something worth hearing.

he really helps.

try to get past the barbs and ask the questions you want.

I asked my question and he decided to just flame me as if I was posting in general forum. He offered nothing of value to me in the way of constructive criticism. I don't mind sharp criticism, because at least you're learning from it. He chose just to flame. He may help others, but in my opinion he's still just as much of an ******* as he always was.

ok.
But he'll answer questions if you have a specific one about the play.

It was played really poorly.
He wants you to know that.

I have thick skin, so it doesn't matter to me how others flame
I just want to make money!!!

He's helping you a lot more than anyone who tries to coddle you are make you think you just get unlucky..

Smash can be a ******, but he gives solid advice and is a good player. He generally offers said advice in the most abraisive manner possible, but it's worth hearing.

The biggest mistake you made in this hand is saying that you, "push[ed] without hesitation." You really need to take time to think about these sorts of things.

Second, I don't mind playing QT pre flop to a raise as long as you understand why you play that hand. You don't play it for a 10 high flop and you don't play it for a Queen high flop. Both leave you very vulnerable. It's a great hand because it connects with a flop that connects with a lot of other hands (KJ for example brings the OESD... and conversely, if you hit 2 pair, KJ will stick around and draw). AKJ is another example. In this case you played it for it's pair value. Hands like JT, QT and KT have very nominal pair-value. You're generally outkicked as these PAINT+a 10 hands are always behind commonly played hands like KQ, KJ, AQ, AJ, AK, AT, and any pp, etc etc.

Third, there's no reason to push. If you're satisfied with a Q-high flush, see the turn. You obviously do not have the best hand hand possible here, and there's lots of hands that will call that have you beat. Call and re-evaluate on the turn. Think about what your opponent may have. Refer back to the first point and take the time to think about these decisions. "Automatic" moves are -EV.

I'm trying to teach a friend this concept today. Not folding PF, but recognizing pressure on top pair. It I read right, it came from two directions. Time to bail.

Definitely would have folded preflop here and the huge overbet on the flop begs a call.