So we've talked about the existence of Jesus, God, and natural science in the forum. The one concept we haven't talked about is the Holy Spirit. Most Christians believe that the Old Testament saints communicated with God himself, the New Testament Christians had Jesus, and after Jesus ascended until right now we have the Holy Spirit. Here is what the NIV Bible has to say about the Holy Spirit.

Jesus promises the coming of the Holy Spirit in John 14:15-17:"If you love me, you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever-the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you."...verse 26 says, "But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."

In John 16:7-15, Jesus talks about what the Holy Spirit will do when he gets here:"But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgement: in regard to sin because men do not believe in me; in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and in regard to judgement, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak own his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you."

In Acts 2 the Holy Spirit comes, as Jesus promised, at Pentecost: 2-4,"Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them." Now after this happened people came running to the house to see what was happening. Peter, enabled by the Holy Spirit, preached a sermon and Acts 2:41 says, "Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day."

The Holy Spirit still operates, I believe, in this way today. He comes to rest inside the soul of a person once they accept Christ. Some think when you are baptized with the Holy Spirit you will speak in tongues, I think speaking in tongues is a gift of the Spirit, but not all will have that gift. All, however, will feel convicted when they sin, and all will be able to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit guiding them through their everyday lives. This might not be an audible sound, but more of a feeling of peace or angst when the Holy Spirit speaks.

I also believe the Holy Spirit manifests himself thru Christians when acts of healing are performed. Miracles of physical healing still happen in a lot of American churches, but more so in more primitive cultures like in Africa when sin is not running as rampant. Emotional healing happens nearly every week in my church because of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus often referred to the Holy Spirit as "the Counselor." This is the Holy Spirit's most important job in my opinion. It is he who consoles and comforts me and other Christians when the rough times hit. It's his counselor aspect that enables Christians to still be happy and joyful thru financial troubles, losing loved ones, and the other things that cause depression in people.

The Holy Spirit is the ultimate proof, to me, for Christianity. The sad thing is to receive him you must first receive Christ. That is the part that most non-believers have a hard time doing. God Bless you, guys. If any you have any questions that would best be discussed over the phone. PM me and I'll try to get in touch with you. Jesus loves you.

Great informative post. The topic of the Holy Spirit is very interesting indeed. God Bless.

Good post.

I don't believe in ghosts.

And nowhere in that post did I mention ghosts. The KJV refers to the Holy Spirit as the "Holy Ghost" but that is a horrible translation. The greek word for the subject we are talking about is "pneuma" where we get our word pneumonia from. It literally means "Life's breath" or or "inner essence" So you could say that when you read the "Spirit of God" you could read it "Breath of God" or "Holy Breath" as if God's breath is what's on the earth presently. But, "ghost" just doesn't fit the translation.

How come those sorts of things don't happen today?

Those sorts of things do happen today. They happen a lot more often in foreign cultures like Africa because here in America there is an enormous amount of sin and unbeilef. If one does not believe the Holy Spirit can miracously heal someone, he probably won't. But in Africa and other countries like that, their faith is much greater and if you ever go on a mission trip to one of those countries with a group like Teen Mania Ministries, you will see things you never thought possible. When i was 16 my sister and a few of our friends went to Panama. While there they prayed for a lady who had lost her arm to a disease. As they prayed her stub started GROWING. My sister said it was like an optical illusion, but by the time they were finished praying the woman had a complete arm. She started crying and thanking God at the top of her lungs. It happens all the time in those places. Something closer to home somewhere in Texas, I think, happened when a pastor I know was preaching at a church and met a man who was partially deaf. Everything sounded like a whisper to him. The pastor friend said as he was praying for the man, he had a vision and saw something like bubbles coming out of the man's ears. So, in his prayer, he said, "Bubbles we pop you in Jesus name." He said he felt like an idiot when he heard himself say that. Everyone in the church was quiet and he quietly asked the man "Can you hear anything?" Being everyone was quiet and he whispered the question to him, the deaf man replied, "No." And when he said that he heard himself, and realized he could hear perfectly.

The Holy Spirit still moves in these ways. If you haven't read Super/System 2, you might want to read what Doyle Brunson says about his own personal healing.

The Panama Red mustve been good. Did sis bring any back?

I understand it's easy to be skeptical. I would've been skeptical too, if my sister wasn't the most skeptical person I knew. She saw it herself and still had trouble believing it. But like Jesus said in my previous post,"The world cannot accept him."

If there's something strange, in yoru neightbor hood.. who ya gonna call...

GHOST BUSTERS....




The Holy Spirit is the ultimate proof, to me, for Christianity. The sad thing is to receive him you must first receive Christ. That is the part that most non-believers have a hard time doing

Anyone else see any logical flaws here? Or am I making a logical flaw by bringing up logic in a "reality of Holy Spirit" thread..

Or is it because we have the technological resources to spot scams easier here then in underdeveloped countries? Also, the fact that there is more disbelief in America cuts both ways; namely we are less likely to attribute something to magic/God then in places where there is strong belief, so these sorts of things would appear to happen more in plaecs where poeple would more readily believe that they would happen; and that doesn't neccesarily mean these things are happening more in those places, just that people in those places are beieving they are happening more.

I understand what you are saying, but if you saw someone who you knew for a fact could not move his legs since birth, all of sudden stand up and walk, then it doesn't matter how much technology we have over another country, you just saw a crippled person walk. It happens.


I don't see any logical flaws there at all. Explain what you mean.

Sorry, kid, I dont buy it for one second. It has NEVER happened when and where it could be documented. Im certainly not going to believe on an internet bulletin board from someone trying to promote their point of view.

There's been several documented accounts, but most people's medical records are confidential so the results are usually not released. The media is very secular and doesn't cover them when they are real, but they do cover the scam artists like Benny Hinn. Medical miracles happen everyday, there's always these tv specials about them where doctors can't explain what happened. This stuff is hard to believe. But truth is truth.

Pile sh*t as high as you want, it still smells the same. If there were a "miracle cure" or "limb growth" the people who were touched by it would be the first to trumpet it, not hide it behind confidentiality.

The medical miracle shows on TV are those that expose them as frauds. Do people recover from disease after some religious event? Occasionally, yes. Did you ever hear of the placebo effect? Do some people regain mobility from paralysis? Rarely, maybe. Did you ever hear of psychosomatic illnesses?

Do people grow limbs from stumps? NEVER. If the religious right ever gets off the stem cell soap box maybe it will happen.

You want documentation of these events happening. Though, for some reason, even if you saw video, or even were present and saw it happen with your own eyes, I'd bet you still wouldn't believe it. You'd probably try to figure out how the "religious freaks" pulled off the hoax or just convince yourself you never saw it. But, you're right the people are touched by the Holy Spirit and do experience miracle cures do trumpet it, unfortunately, people like you tell them they are crazy, that they had a psychosomatic illness. I understand that you probably will never believe this, and that's okay, I'm not trying to convince you too. That is your preogative. But, the fact of the matter is the Holy Spirit moves like this. Miracles do happen. The greatest miracle of all is that Jesus loves people like me, who believe in him, and people like you who do not believe in him, just the same.

Find one..just one..well documented, modern (say the last 75 years) medical miracle. That really shouldnt be too much to ask.

Perhaps, and this is just a thought - using the example of an arm growing back wasn't the best one for a skeptic to comprehend/believe.
Has anyone read the beginning of both SuperSystems? Where Doyle tells of the miracle healing of his daughter? I know he is as gullible a rube as they come, but he seems to believe in healing.

Yeah, the lady's arm growing back is one of the most extragant accounts of healing I have heard, but I did mention Super/System. Doyle definetly believes in divine healing and those he mentions are documented accounts for starters.

This was not written down as a "miracle" by my daughters doctor to my knowledge, but he told us that there was no medical reason for what happened.

Several years ago one of my daughters was scheduled for some corrective surgery. Exrays showed that the bone in the upper gum area of her mouth was in three sections instead of being one solid bone, as it should be (she was born with cleft lip and palate). Her doctor was planning to do a bone graft to repair the boney area in her mouth. They would harvest bone from her leg for this procedure.

She was about 11 at the time and really did not want to have more surgery. We all prayed that things would go well and if it was God's will that she might not need the surgery.

When we went back for the pre-op exrays, the doctor came out and told us that he could not explain what had happened, but she did not need the surgery. The new exray showed that the bone had fused together on it own.

You can believe what you will, however the doctor said he believed, and we believe, that God healed her.

I would also like to include this devotional I read this morning telling more about the role that the Person of the Holy Spirit has in the life of a believer.



JOHN 15:26 NKJ
26 "But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

The Holy Spirit's desire and purpose is to help you -- not to hinder you.

The Holy Spirit is the third Person of the Trinity of God. It is difficult for humans to understand how there can be only one God, as the Scriptures teach, yet He can reveal Himself as three persons. So do not let it be an obstacle for you.

The Holy Spirit is a person, not just a force. He should be treated with the utmost respect and shown the utmost gratitude.

Following are a few of the ways the Holy Spirit desires to help you, and will help you if you allow Him to.

In Prayer

ROMANS 8:26 NKJ
26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

One weakness of humans, compared to God, is in our limited knowledge. We do not even know what is happening on the other side of a wall, let alone the other side of the country. We also do not know what people are planning to do, but the Holy Spirit knows everything. And He will help us to pray accurately
and effectively.

One way the Holy Spirit helps us in prayer is by helping us with our doubts and lack of understanding of what is best, and pray according to the perfect will of God.

He Guides Us

The Holy Spirit will, if allowed, guide you in every area of life; from the words you should speak, to the spouse you should marry, to the investments you should make.

JOHN 16:13 NKJ
13 "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you . . . .