If you were heads up against one player with position, which hand would you rather have? Assume all three hands have exactly one flush draw. You raised in a 7 handed game on the button and the big blind called.

I'm going with K Q 10 9 for a bunch of different reasons.

Reason 1: Since you're up against just 1 opponent, out of the blinds, there is a chance he doesn't have 2 low cards, and this hand gives us a great chance at winning the high. Also, if our opponent has 2 cards to play a low, 3 cards to a low still must come on the board for it to play.

Reason 2: We have a bigger flush draw with this hand, except for maybe the A 4 hand but you never really told us which cards were suited, so this hand has the highest chance of having the highest flush draw.

Reason 3: All of our cards work together, they are all connected.

I don't think it's that important to have a shot at a low in a heads up pot like this where a guy is just defending his blind. If UTG limped or something, and we raised in position, this is completely different, since UTG would almost certainly have a low chance.

2-3-4-9 for a lot of reasons.

Firstly there's the old "its a quiz question and its counter-intuitive" angle.

But also it makes better lows then A4, it makes more straights/wheels than A4xx, and it has back-up.

FWIW, all high hands, such as KQT9 are horrible hands to have HU in a split pot game like O8. A lot of people make the mistake of thinking a bunch of high cards are somehow more powerful heads up, but its a BIG mistake. You need 2-way potential above all else in a game like O8, its easy enough to luck into the best high hand, even with small cards, but you'll NEVER win the low with a high only hand. This is a gigantic disadvantage that a one way hand like KQT9 can never fade against a 2-way hand. If you are going to play something like KQT9 you want everyone in.

A-4-9-J just feels more coordinated to me than the 2-3-4-9. The 9 is totally useless in the second hand, whereas in the first it is marginally uselful. As for K Q 10 9, we are giving up a lot if we go HU without a low, and will have to dump if the flop doesn't connect, and if the flop marginally connects, we may be faced with situations on the turn where villain is freerolling against us to scoop.

A-4-9-J gives us three straight draws, a flush draw, two overcards, and a repectable low draw HU. The problem with this hand is that you might get into trouble with it, if you aren't careful, whereas 2-3-4-9 and K Q 10 9, it's a lot easier to see where you are at. If you feel comfortable about post-flop play HU, and can dump this hand when you only barely connect to the flop, then I think this hand has the strongest HU potential.

Monty

Absolutely not K-Q-T-9 heads-up. You're a decent underdog to a crappy low mixed bag. Actually, you're an underdog to a random hand.

2-3-4-9 has plenty of low potential, but really blows at winning high. The 9 especially in this hand doesn't seem to serve a purpose, except to piss you off. It doesn't help you make any emergency low and is the crappiest of the "high" cards, along with its inability here to help make any kind of straight.

I picked A-4-J-9, with solid two-way potential here, especially heads-up.

I picked A49J over 2349. I don't think the high-only one is a reasonable option.

unless our flush is 49 in hand one, our flush draw is much more valuable in hand one over hand two. also, hand two has very little other high potential, whether it be straights or otherwise.

hand one's low is almost as good (A4 instead of 23), though the counterfeit protection in two is significantly better.

in a multi-way pot, i think hand two wins because of the counterfeit protection, and since it is very difficult for hand one to make the nuts high or low.

heads-up though, making a nut hand is less important, and i think hand 1 has much more potential to make a strong hand high, nearly the same low potential and a much better scooping potential.

14 votes and I'm still the only one who got it right huh?

yeah i agree with you here
the only problem would be if an Ace came out that wasnt to our flush draw
Edit:i didnt notice it was hi/lo but i still dont like having a 9 high
i dont know much about omaha but i still like the kq910

A49J any day...hope i'm not wrong again LOL

I would take A-4-9-J

Heads-up, I think purely high cards have some value, and straights are somewhat less important so I'll go with the A49J. We don't really need to make great lows since our opponent defending his blind will be lucky to have a low draw at all.

With 2349, any two pair we make will be ****, and we're not that likely to make a straight. The less coordinated cards in the A49J are compensated for by the times out aces and jacks beat aces and eights or even when our ace high with a jack kicker beats someone who was banking on a low draw. (Yes, it happens occasionally.)

A49J is a more well-protected hand. If our opponent makes or is drawing to a much better low on the flop, then we probably have a much better hi hand at this point than he does. If our opponent makes or is drawing to a much better high hand on the flop, then we have probably made or are drawing to a much better low hand than he is.

The fact that this hand plays both ways makes it the kind of hand where we can be freerolling for the high or low portion of the pot. The other hands have much less scooping potential.

I would rather have A49J, that doesn't mean I wouldn't raise with one of the other two hands to try to steal + have some backups, but they aren't hands I'd be as comfortable with once called.

Monty

BB has voluntarily called a raise, albeit one from a steal position, and is willing to play the hand out of position. That likely means he has a hand that he doesnt think is likely to get sucked along for a lot of chips..he will flop well or retreat. That to me says he is working on a high hand...a pair, maybe double suited. Any low hand he has would have a higher potential of being quartered if we have a legitimate hand in that direction.

If that all makes sense then I would want to be going in with the best low, which I believe is the 2349, because it has a lower chance of being counterfeited than a hand with only two low cards.

i want K-Q-T-9

if high cards come they can make the nuts and scoop the pot with no cards to a low on board and they are easy to fold if the flop doesnt fit the hand

low cards like 2-3-4-9 wont make the nut straight very often and they can only make the nut low if an ace falls

A-4-9-J with one suit needs exactly 2-3 on board to make the nut low and doesnt have as many straight possibilities. it'll be hard to scoop the pot with this hand

Obviously, we're not answering the question based on our opponent having one of the three hands listed, but, for reference, running the hands against each other:

AJ94 vs KQ109

AJ94 scoops~49% of the time
wins hi (same as scoop in this case) ~49% of the time
wins lo ~44% of the time

KQ109 scoops ~31% of the time
wins hi ~51% of the time

So when faced with a decision between these two-hands, if you are facing the other hand, you want AJ94, since that hand is a coinflip to scoop and will take the lo when it does not scoop 44% of the time. So, with AJ94, you will -not- lose money+win money ~74% of the time. With KQ109, you will -not- lose money+ win money ~51% of the time.

KQ109 vs 2349
In this case 2349 is a slight favorite to scoop AND has a low

AJ94 vs 2349
In this case AJ94 is a 2-1 favorite to scoop and a 2-1 favorite to win hi

KQ109 is an -easier- hand to play. You will know where you are at more readily on the flop. But AJ94 is substantially stronger than the other two hands, heads-up. AJ94 is the clear choice.

Monty

It's heads-up. Making the nuts is no where near as essential as it would be in a huge multi-way pot. K-Q-T-9 is easily the worst hand you'd want to have heads-up here out of the 3 available.

As for the bolded quote, it's got the best chance to scoop out of the 3.

Hi Daniel and friends,

I met you at the Red Hot Poker Tour in the Tournement of Champions.

I'm the guy that blew the chip lead at the final table.



I think having an A and having scoop potential is the way to go so I think the the A4J9 is the way ahead in heads up play.

I don't have the experience of Daniel Negreanu.

So....

When examining this sort of question I prefer to use quantitive methods rather than (what for me would be) hand waving arguments.

I can't calculate the showdown value in my head.

So I cheat and out come the simulations.

*Warning if you want to try to consider things in your head for a while first you may consider the rest of this post a spoiler and come back to it later.*







First compare A49J vs 2349

Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
9c Jd Ah 4h 218088 333013 157795 9192 112027 64588 5973 0.639
4c 9d 3h 2h 78260 157795 333013 9192 157028 95918 5973 0.361

A49J has a EV advantage! .639




Now compare A49J vs KQT9

Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
9c Jd Ah 4h 257827 257827 242057 116 219796 0 0 0.610
Tc 9d Kh Qh 147852 242057 257827 116 0 0 0 0.390

A49J has a .610 EV advantage!




Ok lets compare the two losers 2349 vs KQT9

Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
9s 4c 3h 2h 172127 172127 327873 0 290341 0 0 0.502
Tc 9d Kh Qh 170054 327873 172127 0 0 0 0 0.498

Almost dead even.



Okay so our thoughts about the showdown value of A49J hand are confirmed.

Look at the huge scoop potential when facing the other two hands.

Now lets talk about the playability of the hand.

Here again A49J is easy to play. Having an A that can go either high or low makes the hand much more easy to read.

So again it's A49J by a large margin in showdown and playability.

derick




PS I'm wondering about my answer to Quiz #14

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...showtopic=55973

oh ok i didnt realise

if it were a multi-way pot though then am i right in thinking k-q-t-9 would be the best hand to have?

dont play Omaha h/l much but A-4-9-J would seem to give a better chance of scooping. Also, as the flush draw wasn't specified, decided i have nut flush draw.

Possibly. In a large multi-way pot, it would be the hand that you'd have the best idea of where you stand once the flop comes out. If 2 or 3 low cards come out, you're likely in nasty shape and would get out. If one or no low cards came out, chances are that you'd be holding a much better hand than your opponents, and you could start betting and raising to take down the bloated pot which now has a lot of dead money in it now because of all those low-based hands you are in against which have now turned to garbage.

A-4-J-9 is much more preferable in a short-handed situation, but I would agree that I'd prefer K-Q-T-9 in a huge multi-way pot because it would be much easier to play overall quite frankly. In that given situation, the A-4-J-9's inability to make the nuts easily would then become a huge hindrance to playing it.

I don't know which is the best hand, So I will have to wait for the answer

So we have:
hand A: 2-3-4-9
Hand B: A-4-9-J
Hand C: K-Q-T-9

The flop can have between 0 and 3 low cards. Let's look at how these hands fit the flops.

0 low cards: Hand C loves this flop. Hand B has possibilities. Hand A is screwed.

1 low card: Hand C loves this flop. Hand B has possibilities. Hand A is probably screwed.

2 low cards: Hand C is screwed. Hand B probably has possibilities. Hand A probably likes this flop.

3 low cards: Hand C is screwed. Hand B probably has possibilities. Hand A likes this flop.

Let's go hand by hand.

Hand A basically needs a low flop, but it is hard for this hand to scoop, because it either needs to make a straight or two small pair and two small pair is a vulnerable high hand if you flop it and terrible prospect if you river it.

Hand B will probably have some play on most flops. If a low or low draw is possible, you either have a decent low for heads up or you have a pair of aces, but you're unlikely to get into a troubling situation where you have the second nuts vs the nuts. It's less likely to make the nuts, but it's a more versatile hand and you have more options with position on your opponent.

Hand C basically needs a high flop to feel comfortable. Both this hand and Hand A have the abliity to bluff in position if you don't like the flop, but your opponent appears not to either, but this hand has the benefit of being able to play with a BB who bluffs at a high only flop thinking that you raised with a low hand.

I chose hand B: A-4-9-J

Just seemed the most logical.

BC

I can't see there being a big difference between A49J and 2349, but I voted for the later because it is not as likely to be dominated.

One difference is that a pair of jacks or a pair of nines with an ace kicker is a lot more likely to win the high half of the hand than a pair of fours or a pair of nines with a four kicker.

Also, the 2349 has fewer scoopable boards where the other player will give action. When I say scoopable, you don't really need the nuts in both directions in a heads-up confrontation with the blind. Scoopable means either two pair or better when no low is possible or a decent low and at least a medium pair that may escape for high (something like pairing an eight might do that occasionally). These aren't hands that are guaranteed to scoop the pot, but they have a shot sometimes in a hand that isn't checked down.

A49J

Flip a three sided coin?


With BB calling your button raise I'm thinking he can have a wide range of cards...he doesn't have to have an ace, but I'd say it's likely he does - and if you're gonna raise with any of these three from the button, he's probably gonna call you with a lot of reasonable hands.

2349, I am undecided on its scoop potential...Without a board of A5x, you're playing to the idiot end of any straight - for example, if 456 is on board...you could easily have the 2nd best hand both ways. For all intents and purposes this is a 3-card hand, but there's something intriguing about it.

KQT9 also requires a pretty good flop...and almost definitely needs a Jack...any card you pair could be outkicked...any aceless straight you make is not the best possible hand...and if he's looking for low cards you're not getting any action anyway. It's mostly an easy hand to play, but I think it's a hand where you lose a lot of money and win very little. Excpet for 78, two low cards on the flop are gonna force you out of this hand....and even with 78, 4 of your outs means you're playing for half the pot, and if you miss you could very well be beat by ace-high.

A49J - you can hit broadway, but you need a perfect board...you can hit a middle straight that would be the nuts (which would give you a good low draw), but you need a perfect board...you can hit the bike, but you need a perfect board...any nut draw you have on the flop/turn can easily be counterfeited. The hand has lots of potential, but lots of pitfalls too for idiots like me.

2349 is afraid of three hands on the low side...A49J is afraid of two...and 2349 has less chance of being counterfeited.

KQT9 would probably be the easiest to play...2349 is probably more profitable than people first think, and A49J MIGHT have the most scoop potential, but I think also has the most potential to lose a lot of money due to chasing and counterfeiting.

2349 will win the low half more often than the other two, and that's the first step to scooping.

not even close

A49J, easily. 2349 is the worse of these hands. Just look at it's high potential. There is not much there. Playing heads up omaha, you want hands that can scoop, not make a low and that's it. KQT9 is an ok hand, but I'd prefer it over 2349 since it's more clearcut. Having the ace is key omaha.

I will fold all three preflop 7-handed even I am on the button and even no one has entered in the pot. It doesn't cost me a penny when I fold.

Just from my experience, sometimes when no one has shown interests in the pot, the "good hands" are probably in the blinds.

If there's a gun pointing on my head forcing me to pick a hand to raise on the button then I will definitely pick A4J9, not even close. It has potentials on both high and low, the other two are simply one directional hand, and we are in the two-dimensional game.

I'm not an Omaha HiLo expert, but here's my take:

KQT9 is for Pot Limit Omaha.

I pick 2349 for a couple of reasons.

1) If a lot of players folded preflop, odds are that none of them had an ace. Your opponent most likely has one, so there are three more left to get you a good shot at the wheel. If there were a lot of players in the pot, I'd be more leery to play this hand aggressively.

2) The low connectors provide for a lot of straight possibilities. In A4J9, you're most likely going to have to complete a flush to get the high pot and some really good low cards to complete the low. Yeah, there's one gap between the J and the 9, but if you get a straight with that, you opponent will probably have the higher end of that straight and you'll lose high. If your opponent is holding something like A3xx or A2xx, you don't have as good of a shot at low, especially if one of those X's is a good low card because that will take away your outs to the low.

you just totally contradicted yourself. youre saying 2349 is the worst because it has bad high potential... but you dont mind KQT9 even though it has no low potential whatsoever.

the good thing about 2349 is that youll know on the flop if your good or not, and you can dump it without losing extra money if it doesnt hit. obviously the same can be said for KQT9. more often than not, youre going to get a marginal flop with A49J and probably stick around to see if your flush/two pair hits while also putting a 2-3 on the board. but it really all depends on who youre playing against. if hes weak and you can push him around, it really doesnt matter what you have.