This is about all-around who is the best player.

Albert Pujols is a better baseball player than David Ortiz. Here is why.

A. Ortiz is a DH. Pujols actually plays a pretty good first base. Defense is an important part of baseball...so Pujols takes a big lead here.

B. Let's look at their offensive numbers for the past 4+ years (2002-2006).

- David Ortiz:
2002: 125 G, .272 BA, .339 OBP, .839 OPS, 20 HR, 75 RBI,
2003: 128 G, .288 BA, .369 OBP, .961 OPS, 31 HR, 101 RBI
2004: 150 G, .301 BA, .380 OBP, .983 OPS, 41 HR, 139 RBI,
2005: 159 G, .300 BA, .397 OBP, .1.001 OPS, 47 HR, 148 RBI,
2006: 13 G, .327 BA, .431 OBP, 1.186 OPS, 6 HR, 12 RBI

- Albert Pujols:
2002: 157 G, .314 BA, .394 OBP, .955 OPS, 34 HR, 127 RBI
2003: 157 G, .359 BA, .439 OBP, 1.106 OPS, 43 HR, 124 RBI
2004: 154 G, .331 BA, .415 OBP, 1.072 OPS, 46 HR, 123 RBI
2005: 161 G, .330 BA, .430 OBP, 1.039 OPS, 41 HR, 117 RBI
2006: 13 G, .364 BA, .508 OBP, 1.531 OPS, 9 HR, 19 RBI

So let's recap. In 2002, Albert plays in more games, hits for a significantly higher average, gets on base much more, has a much higher OPS, hits 14 more homeruns and had 52 more RBIs. In 2003, Albert hits for a MUCH higher average, gets on base MUCH more often, has a .150+ lead in OPS, hits 12 more homeruns, and has 23 more RBI. In 2004, Albert hits 30 points higher, gets on base much more often, has a much higher OPS, hits 5 more homeruns, and has 16 less RBI. In 2005, Albert hits 30 points higher, gets on base more often, has a higher OPS, hits six less homeruns and 31 less RBI. Thus far in 2006, Albert has a higher average, highe OBP, MUCH higher OPS, more homeruns, and more RBI.

So.....basically..Albert does EVERYTHING better (including defense) except for less homeruns by a small amount for ONE year and less RBIs for TWO years.

Can you HONESTLY tell me that Ortiz is a better player.

C. About Ortiz being so "clutch" for Boston in the playoffs. Sure, Ortiz was great in 2004 for Boston. But does that ONE good run make him better? Well by golly....let's take a look at their career postseason numbers, shall we??


David Ortiz:

In a total of 8 postseason series from 2002-2005, here are his numbers:

Batting Average: .301
On Base Percentage: .383
OPS: .935
Homeruns: 8
RBI: 32

Albert Pujols:

In a total of 8 postseason series from 2001-2005, here are the numbers:

Batting Average: .336
On Base Percentage: .428
OPS: 1.048
Homeruns: 10
RBI: 29

So let's review. In eight postseason series for both of them, Pujols hits for a significantly higher average, a significantly higher OBP, a significantly higher OPS, two more homeruns, and three less RBI. So........how is Ortiz "better" in the postseason?????

Ortiz had more clutch hits in ONE postseason than Pujols, and has had more RBI's two times and more homeruns one time. IN EVERYTHING ELSE, PUJOLS IS DOMINANT. Ortiz is a great hitter, but Pujols is a better hitter and better fielder. Pujols is better than Ortiz.

You must be baiting me.


LOL CLASSIC. You post a poll, get no votes... then respond to your original post with your own opinion. You were obviously getting ready to launch a full force cyber-assault on anyone who said ORTIZ. =)

uhhhhhh..........I posted the poll at 3:20...and immediately began making my arguement, which was posted 25 minutes later. There will be votes when more people are on tonight........also, this poll is 'doublemeup's' idea, as he was the one saying that Ortiz is a better player. All I did was start the poll and then show the FACTS and STATISTICS. I am not stating opinion, I am showing the facts. Pujols's numbers are better in every single way. He is the better player.

Pujols > Ortiz and its not close.

the only argument in Ortiz' favour is that he was a huge factor in the recent world series win. there may be some "clutch" statistics that are in his favour over Pujols', but I'd be surprised.

Pujols is most likely the most valuable player in baseball, and Ortiz is not one to challenge that.

Did you vote?? There are only two votes.....whatever though.

Also...as for the "clutch statistics" or whatever....Pujols' postseason numbers are better in just about every single way....so I think that loses a bit of steam too. Also....remember Pujols' shot off Lidge?? Yeah....................we're in danger of losing a planet to that one.

Not even close...it's Pujols.

Hell, I'd take A-Rod and Derrek Lee before I'd take David Ortiz.

Where is 'doublemeup!??! He was telling me how wrong I was on this....and said we should create a poll about it so I can "be proven wrong" or something. 6-0 so far.........will Ortiz even get one vote from a non-BoSox homer??

I hope we don't make a poll every time someone makes a ridiculous claim. If we're going to, we need the Reggie Sanders fluke poll.

I love Ortiz and yeah, if it's close and late, I'd want him up there, but if I'm starting a team, he's not the first guy I pick. Or second. Or third.

Pujols 7 - Ortiz 0

need we say more?

If doublemeup wants to continue posting in the baseball thread he better come a little stronger than saying "Ortiz is more clutch" and then running away from the statbombs being dropped on him by Koop et al.

Dont worry, even I voted for pujols lol

That made me laugh.

Statbombs.

I like it.

Oh, and yeah, this poll was "doublemeup's" idea.....thought he might have a say or at least vote in it...or maybe even he voted for Pujols????

Well....Ortiz got on the board at least...lol. Good to see doublemeup visited the thread but chose not to respond...lol.

Alright the poll I wanted is up.


Btw, this is the first time I've seen this thread. Not good to lie.

DAVID ORTIZ- 162 game average....
HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG
32 114 1 0 76 123 .282

ALBERT PUJOLS- 162 game average...
HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG
41 127 6 3 82 71 .332

Ortiz- .990 fielding %
Pujols- .988 fielding % not much difference here. Ortiz hasn't played 1st base for more than 45 games in a season since 1998

statistics don't lie... It's all Pujols

If you're going to use statistics, how about using them correctly? Do we really care who gets thrown out stealing more often?

How about this:

Pujols career OPS+: 169
Ortiz PEAK OPS+: 161

There...that makes your case without dragging SB, CS, AVG, and RBIs into it.

NO WAY!! ALBERT'S SIX STOLEN BASES PER YEAR IS EXACTLY WHAT PUTS HIM OVER THE TOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NUH-UH ORTIZ DOESN'T GET CAUGHT STEALING! PUJOLS GETS CAUGHT THREE TIMES A YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OHHHHS NO!!! I JUST GOTZ OWNED!!!!!!!!!!

I just picked some of the stats. Take it easy... Don't cry about it

That has to be the stupidest thing I have read.

Try reading it in context. Of course it's stupid.

"So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know... "

I am the walrus?

You missed out on the sarcasm of it. Oh well..it happens.

stupid debate about an obvious choice~

u nubs~

I didn't know that they had access to the internet on the short bus these days. I guess you learn something new everyday.


Well...I do, you don't. You clearly learn nothing new every day.

Stupid non sequitur from an obvious idiot.

Periods are fun.

pujols

Ahem. Do you not remember last years run? There is a reason he finished 2nd in MVP voting, and the main one was all the clutch hits and basically carrying the team on his back for nearly all of last year.

Talking about postseason runs. Both players have had a ton of "clutch" hits in the regular season....I don't think we're talking about ALLLLLLLLL those.

David Ortiz doesn't even play defense, which by default makes him one of the worst all-around players in baseball.

LMAO


Yeah David Ortiz is waaaaaaay worse than any backup player.

which means you have absolutely no idea whatsoever on what the words "all around" mean

if i needed someone at bat in the 9th down a run with a guy on, i'm taking ortiz. in every other situation known to man, i'm taking pujols.

same reason A-Rod won MVP over him last year. Pujols is much better IMO

Can I ask what made you want to compare a DH vs a 1st basemen in the category of best all-around player? I think its pretty obvious who would win when comparing defense and offense.

Ask all the Red Sox homers and you'll have your answer.

Because someone made the outrageous claim that Ortiz was the better player, and when we tried to tell him other wise, he would have none of it and said we should create a poll about it. Thus, I created a poll about it and stated my case.

FYP

Yeah when the alcohol wore off I realized I didn't know what the fuck I was talking about and I even said that Pujols is better.


As for being a better clutch hitter, they're about even.

I can respect that