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psujohn
Ultimate Bet 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Preflop: Hero is BB with [Ts], [Td].
UTG raises, 8 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) [7s], [9c], [9d] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero raises

Yes? No? Maybe?

TT in the BB, UTG raises - assuming he's position aware he's probably got a decent hand. Raising PF doesn't seem to accomplish much - we're probably 50/50 at best to be ahead. Does anyone fold this?

Paired undercards on the flop are just about perfect for us. Villain will likely continuation bet most anything here. C/R could mean we have 9. We could easily be ahead here too. Fold to a 3-bet obviously.

Anyone like it? I'm not entirely convinced myself and I did it. smile.gif

And yes, find a better table. Easier said than done on UB 1/2 during the day.
LongLiveYorke
Looks pretty good to me.
pokerplayer24
QUOTE (psujohn @ Thursday, April 13th, 2006, 1:15 PM) *
Does anyone fold this?


No.

I lead 3-bet the flop. Its more fun.
screech
QUOTE
TT in the BB, UTG raises - assuming he's position aware he's probably got a decent hand. Raising PF doesn't seem to accomplish much - we're probably 50/50 at best to be ahead. Does anyone fold this?


I take it you lost. wink.gif

Against an average player who raises 99+, AJ+ and KQ+ preflop, your are a 52-48 underdog, so you have to see this flop. Even against a tight raiser who would only raise JJ+, AQs+, and AKo, you are a 65-35 dog so you should still be seeing a flop.

Once an ace does not hit the flop, you are a 60-40 favorite against the average raiser's range, and a 60-40 dog against the tight raiser. In either case, you're not folding. Your should raise the normal raiser all the time, and should still probably raise the tight raiser for information as long as that information is accurate (3-bet = higher pp).
psujohn
QQ and he just called down. But really that's not the point.

An MP raiser or someone who's LAG and I 3-bet this PF normally. Yeah I guess folding PF isn't really an option. It's just that mid pockets lose a lot when it's heads-up vs a tight EP raiser.

The question is more:
- 3-bet PF and lead a "safe" flop
- call PF and lead a "safe" flop
- call PF and C/R a "safe" flop
- call PF and C/C a "safe" flop

Put villain in MP3 and I take the 3-bet PF, lead flop line.

With villain in EP and no other takers though which of these is the best? Part of the reason I took this line is that it's at least similar to what I'd do with A9. Though of course that raises the c/c flop, c/r raise line into question as well.

Edit: or how about this for an interesting question/generalization - does this flop with a chance of trips work to our advantage (getting someone to laydown a better hand) or our disadvantage (making villain take a wa/wb line that leaves us betting into him drawing slim)
antistuff
I think you should call this preflop sometimes and threeebet sometimes.

On this flop, having just called, anyone like a more passive line, like
check/call, check/call, bet/call(or fold) or check/call, then donk the turn sort of line. Keep pot small and give him more of a chance to make a mistake with his missed overs.
Wingmaster05
PSu i take this line against people that can bet/fold a lot...strat tables especially.

3 betting/betting theflop is the same as calling and check raising flop in terms of bets but in a sense we get the position on the flop. He will always bet the flop and with this hand we ALWAYs c/r, folding pairs lower then us (more importantly not letting pairs outplay us when the board appears scary) and getting a better sense of their hand.

This make any sense?
screech
QUOTE (psujohn @ Thursday, April 13th, 2006, 8:21 PM) *
QQ and he just called down. But really that's not the point.

An MP raiser or someone who's LAG and I 3-bet this PF normally. Yeah I guess folding PF isn't really an option. It's just that mid pockets lose a lot when it's heads-up vs a tight EP raiser.

The question is more:
- 3-bet PF and lead a "safe" flop
- call PF and lead a "safe" flop
- call PF and C/R a "safe" flop
- call PF and C/C a "safe" flop

Put villain in MP3 and I take the 3-bet PF, lead flop line.

With villain in EP and no other takers though which of these is the best? Part of the reason I took this line is that it's at least similar to what I'd do with A9. Though of course that raises the c/c flop, c/r raise line into question as well.

Edit: or how about this for an interesting question/generalization - does this flop with a chance of trips work to our advantage (getting someone to laydown a better hand) or our disadvantage (making villain take a wa/wb line that leaves us betting into him drawing slim)


Calling pf and check/raising most flops is almost always best. There are some players who I would rather 3-bet pf, and some flops where i may just check/call, but normally you are going to want play the hand as you did. Calling pf and leading a safe flop is almost never correct.

Basically, your decision on whether to call or check/raise this flop depends on the reliability of the information you get if you are reraised anywhere, and the chance that he will check behidn the turn with overcards. If there is a decent chance he will check behidn the turn with overs (or even the river), you have to check/raise this flop and lead the turn as you did, even though you may be at a slight equity disadvantage.

If villian will bet the turn again with overs, then your best line is to check/call the flop, and check/raise the turn. You won't get 3-bet very often because of the dangerous nature of the board. However, I don't think that the board as it is will ever get you to fold a better hand.
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