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hblask
I have a question about MTTs, it's not really strategy, but this seems like the most appropriate forum.

The problem I have with these tournaments is, you gotta get past too many people chasing drawing hands. For example, say my pocket 99 flops a 89T. There "always" seems to be someone willing to chase that straight, or flush, or whatever. After the flop, they have a 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 chance of hitting it, so when they go all in, it's correct for me to call.

The problem I have with MTTs, though, is I tend to run into 4 or 5 or 6 of these situations, so I'm almost guaranteed to lose one of them. It's not always just like this, but KK vs A7, or AK vs QJs, etc. There will be time after time where someone will have anywhere from a 1 in 7 to a 1 in 3 chance of winning for a pot that can make or break me. Eventually, they will hit. And yes, I win my share of them, so I'm not complaining about bad beats, but it seems that the only way to get any momentum in an MTT is do win MORE than your share of them; basically, to not lose any big hands this way. So far, I haven't had that happen (i.e., defying the odds and getting a winning streak). My calls seem to be solid, but ten tries as a 4-1 favorite makes for short stacks if the one you lose is against a big stack.

So how do you win these things (MTTs)? Just keep losing until, one day, you can defy the odds and win 6 or 7 of these longshot-but-still-lose-alot hands in a row? Is the payoff for that lucky day really worth all those losses? What am I missing here.
blakheart
QUOTE (hblask @ Thursday, April 6th, 2006, 1:28 PM) *
I have a question about MTTs, it's not really strategy, but this seems like the most appropriate forum.

The problem I have with these tournaments is, you gotta get past too many people chasing drawing hands. For example, say my pocket 99 flops a 89T. There "always" seems to be someone willing to chase that straight, or flush, or whatever. After the flop, they have a 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 chance of hitting it, so when they go all in, it's correct for me to call.

The problem I have with MTTs, though, is I tend to run into 4 or 5 or 6 of these situations, so I'm almost guaranteed to lose one of them. It's not always just like this, but KK vs A7, or AK vs QJs, etc. There will be time after time where someone will have anywhere from a 1 in 7 to a 1 in 3 chance of winning for a pot that can make or break me. Eventually, they will hit. And yes, I win my share of them, so I'm not complaining about bad beats, but it seems that the only way to get any momentum in an MTT is do win MORE than your share of them; basically, to not lose any big hands this way. So far, I haven't had that happen (i.e., defying the odds and getting a winning streak). My calls seem to be solid, but ten tries as a 4-1 favorite makes for short stacks if the one you lose is against a big stack.

So how do you win these things (MTTs)? Just keep losing until, one day, you can defy the odds and win 6 or 7 of these longshot-but-still-lose-alot hands in a row? Is the payoff for that lucky day really worth all those losses? What am I missing here.


You probably need to get lucky a couple of times in a big tournament to win, not always though. The key is to make the right decision every time. If you really play a legitmate tight aggressive style, you will have less allin situations that can cripple you. If you bet your strong hands hard, then your opponnents are making a mistake in calling you. Therefore, it should work out.

It is easier if your good hands hold up early, then you will have a bigger stack to withstand the occasional bad beat. Remember, if a typical payout structure pays 10% and you are very good you will cash in maybe 15% of the tournaments you enter. Thant means one cash every 8 entries. And squeeking into the money isn't even that significant a value, Final tables are even less common (Ask go bears or therin what there % is).
hblask
QUOTE (blakheart @ Thursday, April 6th, 2006, 4:17 PM) *
You probably need to get lucky a couple of times in a big tournament to win, not always though. The key is to make the right decision every time. If you really play a legitmate tight aggressive style, you will have less allin situations that can cripple you. If you bet your strong hands hard, then your opponnents are making a mistake in calling you. Therefore, it should work out.


I do play TA and a typical tournament for me is to do well for the first third of a tournament, slowly building up my stack so that I'm in the 20th to 50th percentile of remaining players, then, when the blinds start getting scary to the small(er) stacks, my solid hands get faced with those desperation bets time and again, and those are the (eventual) losses that take me out on a 1 in 5 shot. Do I need to be more aggressive earlier, so that I'm in the top 1/5th instead of the top half? That seems like it just compounds the luck issue.

So far my choices seem to be: play semi-loose-aggressive and have the tournament riding on luck, or play tight-aggressive and squeak (just barely) into the money. The combinations of these that I've tried have been less successful, but maybe I just need more experience and fine-tuning. The people at the top usually look like maniacs to me, the people who bet on everything and are having a good run of cards.

I don't mean to just whine here, I really am trying to figure out what I need to change. Any other TA types who have had this problem and figured out a solution?
copernicus
dont play for all your chips without a a big edge
Rocketwadster
I'm not saying you are doing this - BUT, taking a Greg Raymer 2005 WSOP Main Event (TV Coverage only) approach to MTT's can be very nerve-wracking, to say the least (Note: I am not knocking Raymer's skills here, I am simply pointing out that it appeared that he took a ton of races, winning a lot, losing some, to the Championship).

Constantly racing for all of your chips, even when some of them you are 60-40 to win, isn't very viable IMO. Sure, there will be times when you win 3 or 4 of them in a tourney, but it only takes one of them to take you out.

I am only interested in winning one hand in a tournament - my last one. icon_cool.gif
Bubba83
QUOTE (Rocketwadster @ Friday, April 7th, 2006, 5:45 AM) *
Constantly racing for all of your chips, even when some of them you are 60-40 to win, isn't very viable IMO. Sure, there will be times when you win 3 or 4 of them in a tourney, but it only takes one of them to take you out.


If you win the first couple then losing a race hurts, but since you're the bigger stack you're still okay when you lose. This is the strategy Greg uses I think, he likes to take races when he has the bigger stack, and rarely did he want to take races when he was the shorter of two stacks.
Mercury69
QUOTE (Rocketwadster @ Friday, April 7th, 2006, 8:45 AM) *
I'm not saying you are doing this - BUT, taking a Greg Raymer 2005 WSOP Main Event (TV Coverage only) approach to MTT's can be very nerve-wracking, to say the least (Note: I am not knocking Raymer's skills here, I am simply pointing out that it appeared that he took a ton of races, winning a lot, losing some, to the Championship).

Constantly racing for all of your chips, even when some of them you are 60-40 to win, isn't very viable IMO. Sure, there will be times when you win 3 or 4 of them in a tourney, but it only takes one of them to take you out.

I am only interested in winning one hand in a tournament - my last one. icon_cool.gif


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