$2-4NL on Party Poker, I bought in for $300 and worked it up to about $575.
I get KK UTG and raise to $18. I get called from the button and then comes
an all-in bet of $400 from the SB!! I don't have any notes or information on
this player as I never played with him before and he just sat down. What do
you do? I thought about it for 15 seconds and called. Didn't hit a K and
there was a Q on board and I knew I had lost even before I saw his cards.
Only likely hands I could beat were AK or JJ outside chance of TT or 99, if
he had AA I was smashed from the jump and if he had QQ he had caught up and
hit his set.

Have you ever folded KK preflop and in that situation would you? Every
article or story I have read about pros and similar situations wither cash
game or tourney none of them say they lay KK down preflop. I read 1 story
about you laying it down in a tourney once and the kid flips up AQ. So was
I wrong to call? I think I might have been in hind sight, but I honestly
really just do not know if I was wrong or right? The facts are I am only a
dog to 1 hand AA and at least 3-1 fav to any Ax and 4-1 against any smaller
pair or non Ace unpaired hand like JTs.

I wouldn't know what to do if the situation came up again that's why I need
your expertise, how do you fold KK preflop for only 1 single reraise albeit
all-in. And this player just sat down thats why he had his full $400 buy-in
so I knew absolutely nothing about how he played. Not knowing anything
about the player I have seen people make that move with a hand as weak as 99
or TT just to shut down the pot and take the preflop bets. I see ppl doing
it with AK and QQ all day. Just don't know. First time for everything and
that was the first time I ever lost with KK to AA all-in preflop that big in
a cash game. I just can't say he has AA and fold when I smash every other
hand he could have. My radar isn't that good if it was I would be playing
with the best in the world, and if I fold and he shows QQ or AKs I would
probably feel even worse making the mistake of folding the winner than I did
making the mistake of calling with the loser.

Thanks

How do you know he doesn't have KK?

It's happened to me twice

I don't understand... You didn't see what the other guy had?

At any rate, I'd probably make that call.

No read on villain I don't fold KK pf...

I'm not good enough to fold KK and your not either

Would be calling here. If he had aces pre-flop would he move all in?

What did he have anyways? Did you say?

"First time for everything and
that was the first time I ever lost with KK to AA all-in preflop that big in
a cash game."

You're not going to get a direct answer from DN, but lots of us will pretend.

I've folded KK preflop twice. Both times he limped and re-raised. I've flat called a few times in other situations when I suspected aces due to multiple raises from out of position. But I pay off in the situation you describe.

When you have KK you will run into AA only about 1 in 24 times. You better know the player VERY good in order to be able to pick up the one time you run into it. Since 95% of the time you dont have this great read Push!

when you have KK you will run into AA one in 24 times?

It sounds like you don't play many cash games if thats the first time you've lost KK vs. AA. I think we have all lost that many times. I have won many times also with AA vs. KK. I have also won sometiems with KK vs. AA or lost with AA. Yesterday I lost QQ vs. Q10o(the guy was a maniac) all-in prelfop.(ok...that time i was pissed).. but the point is, it balances out.

Don't sweat it, reload and move on. Losing an entire buyin is not a big deal. I think you should fold QQ in that spot though(which is something I forget to do sometimes) given no read.

we need an official "folding KK preflop" thread, just bc the question comes up so much.

It might as well be this one.


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)

Button ($147.30)
Hero ($354.70)
BB ($305.50)
UTG ($142.25)
MP ($46.45)
CO ($51.70)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K , K .
1 fold, MP calls $2, CO raises to $4, 1 fold, Hero raises to $12, BB raises to $62, MP folds, CO calls $47.70 (All-In), Hero raises to $150, BB raises to $305.5, Hero ??????



I think I made a mistake in this hand by giving myself odds that were too good. Agreed? BB is one of the strongest players around.

two words

smash. strategy

Agreed you have no choice but to call


As for the OP, I've folded KK probably around 10x pf in a cash game due to solid reads and limp/pushes from UTG etc. Probably another 10x I've had KK vs AA and sucked out in 3 or so of them.

Basically you gotta make this call against an unknown. I've seen QQ and JJ and even TT make this play several times.

that statistic might be true but that number probably drops to about 1 in 3 times after a cold call and push

make sense?

I think this is a call. you have to put in another 150$ to win 500$.
laying you 3 1/3 to 1. If he has aces you will suckout 1 in 5 times and if he holds ANY other hand he is dominated. I gamble here maybe taking a bit the worst of it.

easy way to handle your situation.. have a coin with you.. and flip..

heads.. you call.. tails.. you fold.. live and die by the coin.. yep..

No chance I'm folding KK in that spot, $18 to $400? not even close to enough info to deduce that he has AA.


I've had my KK run into AA 4 times in the last 2 weeks. this is the only one that I think was foldable, and I nearly did it, but then I thought back to DN's blog about when he was sure the guy had AA so he folded and the ki flipped over QQ.

1/2 NL $200 buyin, Hero has $600, villain (tight/solid player)has $450

Hero raises UTG to $12 with KK, villain reraises to $30, Hero reraises to $100, Villain moves all-in for $450.

came real close to folding this one, but couldn't go with my gut instinct and let it go.

I believe that as DrawingDead, not DN

WHen he said something to the effect of 'i know what that raise means' and folded.

I really wish people would stop sucking Smash's ****.

what made u bump this thread?

I only remember a couple of times that my KK has ran into AA, and both times, it was a no-brainer call.

You don't fold KK without a ton of info to the contrary. If you had been sitting there a ton of time, and the read you had on this guy was super loose-donkish, would you have hesitated in calling? Would you have questioned your call even if you were beat preflop?

Also, having KK/AA against several other players and being forced to see a flop is not an excuse not to play it or play it aggressively. If you are only 35% to win with your AA b/c of the number of people going to the flop with you, it means 1 You still have the best hand preflop and are the favorite individually and 2 you're getting at least 4:1 on your money with a big pocket pair (that about right for a KK/AA to be 36% preflop, NL gurus?). So, you push wholeheartedly.

Wow, thanks for the advice. You really opened my eyes. I'm never folding AA preflop in a multi-way pot again.

The advice was for the OP, jackass. He mentioned a situation where AA lost its majority-favorite status b/c it was in a multiway pot. You in a bad mood? Feeling fat today?

No, you don't fold it.

With the odds you were getting, and the lack of information on the player, you play your hand. Simple as that.

I don't think KK can ever be folded in a cash game, at least never online. Online poker just has allot less information. Even if you read he's strong, allot of players think AK is strong. Allot think Jacks are strong. You just simply never know.

The only freak situations to fold KK would be in tournament play. I think in cash games you need to call, taking into your decision the chances really are that he has the only hand that has you beat.

I have this mindset because at the table you need to simply not care about money. When you have the best of it, you need to go allin. What are you going to wait for, a 99 to 1 advantage before you "gamble" ?

Im not saying push when your a 52 48 favorite, but with KK, come on.

Look at it this way. You are there to make money. You put yourself in a nice position to win a nice chunk of it (Unless he freakishly has AA). Your not going to go broke, because you should have at least 5-10 more buyins to that game left back.
If you don't, you simply shouldn't be playing that high.

For anyone thinking about folding KK preflop, let me direct you to this thread:

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...showtopic=73736

why would you raise? id just call the preflop and make sure i cover my *** if a ace floops or a queen or jack too and see what happens

why would you raise? id just call the preflop and make sure i cover my *** if a ace floops or a queen or jack too and see what happens

You missed the 'sw'.

as we know.. with AA or KK we're looking to get all our money in Preflop and Villan just made our Job that much easier.... I would call and see where the chips fall