On Baseball tonight...here are the top 5 pitchers right now according to Tino Martinez.

1. Johan Santana (no problem)
2. Roy Halladay (no problem)
3. Felix Hernandez (maybe in two years...but for now...no. Just dumb)
4. Bartolo Colon (iffy..........good..but I don't know about Top 5)
5. Jeremy Bonderman (WTF!??!?!?)

What a horrible list. No Randy Johnson!?!? No Mark Buehrle!?!? No Barry Zito or Rich Harden!?!? No relievers!!?!?

Yeah, that's a suspect list, but I'd hate it even more if Zito were on it....and not just because he had a rough outing last night. For the last three years my #1 roto draft rule is to not draft Barry Zito.

Jezus...what a waste of a 1,000th post. I figured I'd be good and drunk for the millenium mark, but alas.

That makes sense. I know when I think quality, I think Detroit's number 3 starter.

#2 starter this year. And what??? That 4.98 career ERA doesn't impress you!?!? Lol...actually....Bonderman is pretty good for a 23 year old....keeps getting better and better...but not anywhere close to Top 5 yet.




I don't necessarily put Zito on the list either...but he's far ahead of Bonderman and Hernandez right now. Buerhle should be on that list though, IMO. Severly underrated...and still only 27.

I stand corrected. His number are definitely improving. Of course, when you finish out your first season with a winning percentage lower than most people's batting average, there's nowhere to go but up.

I'd still take Zito over Bonderman at this moment without hesitation. A few years from now is a different question. Maybe Tino thinks this is Bonderman's breakout year and he wants on the bandwagon early.

Oh yeah...Bonderman is good..but not THAT good. He may be a great pitcher down the road...but he's nowhere close to top 5 or ahead of Zito. I think Tino is kind of an idiot about this actually......list was pretty atrocious.

tino needs a little more work on the camera... a little to robot like for me...

FYP

Mariano Rivera and K-Rod should definitely be on that list.

But even if it was a list of the best 5 starters, it still sucks.

I agree with the top 3 if it's who you would want on your team right now to win a World Series.

King Felix is young but his stuff is just filthy.

I toss Colon/Bonderman - Lackey is actually the ace of the Angels and I'd go with him and either Randy Johnson or Harden for my 5th pick. If Harden could stay healthy, he'd be my 5th but he hasn't proven that yet.

If Schilling is over his injury and returns to his 2004 form, he's as good Randy, etc

santana - obvious
halladay - obvious
felix - kind of agree...if tino is talking about when a batter goes into the box which pitcher he wouldn't want to face. felix may not have the numbers but his stuff makes a batter look bad
colon - i think lackey and escobar has nastier stuff than colon
bonderman - lol

my list...probably not worth much

santana
halladay
harden
randy
beckett

Randy is a dandy. Screw him. Last year he was 17-8 with a 3.79. Meh.

Beckett's first AL start is tomorrow night....can't be considered a good AL pitcher YET.

randy johnson is still a dominating pitcher in my books, i just dont look really highly on stats~

can't wait to see how he does against al lineups~

Bonderman is going to be an excellent pitcher. Perhaps Tino was taking potential into account when giving his list.

I wouldn't put Zito on a top 10 list.

Um, Roy Oswalt? Herro?



Not sure if I would either.

I'm pretty sure Oswalt is in the NL.

Santana
Halladay
Harden
Buerhle
Randy Johnson? I don't know, that 5th spot is wide open.

Ah, missed that this was AL only.

Top 5 NL

Oswalt
Pedro
Peavy
Carpenter
Prior? Schmidt? Hudson?

First four are solid - the 5th one is tough

Prior: Hurt too much
Schmidt: Has lost something
Hudson: Also on the decline, look at those SO rates


I actually would have to choose between C. Zambrano, Sheets or Willis. Patterson and Webb play on bad teams but if they have another good year, I would have to consider them also.

Oh, Sheets...totally forgot about him. He's my 5th.

Billy Beane's decision to trade Hudson and not Zito was in large part due to strike out rates.

Tino only batted against Randy once in his career so maybe he feels he can't gauge his stuff properly.

At least he faced King Felix 3 times.

top 5 nl

1 peavy
2 oswalt
3 pedro
4 zambrano
5 sheets

if prior doesn't get hurt every week..he would be on there

Not having Carpenter on this list causes you to lose all credibility. His last two years with the Cardinals have been extremely impressive as the #1 guy on the #1 NL team. Not saying he is necessarily #1 on the list, as he's only done it for two years, but he's ahead of Zambrano and Sheets and easily and probably Oswalt too.

I'm a Cub fan and I agree with that.

Not in order:

Pedro
Sheets
Carpenter
Oswalt
Zambrano/Peavy/Willis


I'd probably go for Willis.

i dont see him as a diminating pitcher~ watch...he will not be the ace everyone thinks he is this year

Peavy needs to be on that list.

He is, sort of. I don't think he's better than Willis though.

Well, in the last three years, they have identical winning percentages (Peavy pitching for the Padres, Dontrelle for a world championship team), Peavy has a better ERA, much better K-rate, and a lower WHIP.

It's a marginal difference though. Really, all the pitchers on the list are fairly close except Pedro. If he were completely healthy, he'd be far and away the best pitcher in the league.

I agree with the top 3 if it's who you would want on your team right now to win a World Series.

King Felix is young but his stuff is just filthy.

I toss Colon/Bonderman - Lackey is actually the ace of the Angels and I'd go with him and either Randy Johnson or Harden for my 5th pick. If Harden could stay healthy, he'd be my 5th but he hasn't proven that yet.

Lackey is the Ace? Um you do now that Colon was the Cy Young winner in the AL?
Colon is a top 5, He just grinds it out every game with a fast ball the gets faster later in the game. Hee is a vet and it shows

Jesus, are you arguing with yourself?

hahahahaha


I think he hasn't figured out how to quote.

And not just throwing it in the pretty blue box...I don't see any quotation marks anywhere.

Nah, just forgot. Teach me to respond while in a hand.

Just takes some practice. You'll get it down by the 100th post mark no problem.

Yeah, those writers always pick the most deserving candidate for MVP and Cy Young (sw)

Look at Colon's 2004 stats - he's very inconsistent from year to year. Lackey's 2nd Half included an ERA of 2.57; he had 199 K's compared to Colon's 157 and Lackey is 5 years younger. Also - it appears that Lackey is in better shape than Colon.

It's like the A's where Zito is called the Ace of the team when any A's fan would rather have Harden or Haren take the mound.

There's a difference IMO between your best pitcher and your ace. The ace of the staff has the mental stability that most other pitchers don't. Case in point...Derek Lowe. In the Dodger's season opener Lowe got lit up and looked like he was going to come apart at the seams. You put Randy Johnson, Jamie Moyer, or Tom Glavine in that same position they will keep their composure and come at you again with everything they got. An ace is a pitcher that will go out there with the attitude of I will get you....even if you put 20 runs on me in an inning the I will get you back whether it be the next inning or the next game. Jamie Moyer couldn't throw a baseball through a paper sack, but his attitude and will to win makes him the ace of that staff...in other words he finds ways to get you out.