Probably 4th or 5th hand of full tilt 17k guarnateed, huge donkfest, mp2 raises standard to 90, blinds at 15 30, folded to me in bb with qq, I move all in for 1500. Thoughts?

I'm not a huge fan of it at all. I'd just pop it up to between 270 and 360.

When you push all-in, most of the time the villain will fold and you collect a small pot, which does little to your stack. When you do get called, you'll often be dominated by AA and KK and a coin flip to AK. Sure, sometimes worse hands will call, but not often enough to make this profitable IMO.

In a regular tourney this is obviously true, but I think you are underestimating the horrible level of play usually displayed in hour 1 of this tourney (usually by me included). Have you ever played this particular tourney before?

I do this fairly often. I stole this idea from Jerrod Ankenman, who first posted about using it in the Step 5 tournaments at Party with AA-JJ, AK in the first few rounds.

IMO, it's nearly impossible to show a long-term loss with it against typical online MTT opponents, and it can save you a lot of time with the number of flips you end up taking.

I'm pretty sure you're gonna get a lot of hate in this thread, BTW.

I've played in this tourney, I like the play, and I've used it myself. Even when they all fold some of the more observant players at your table will peg you as an idiot, which you can exploit later.

Why do you think I will get hate for this thread?

Because the concept of jamming with that range in the early stages (pretending to be a donk) is somewhat supportive of the idea of flipping early in a tournament for your entire stack.

For some reason, that gets people riled.

i've been thinking about this ever since strategy and i discussed it in the other post.

i think at a weak table in a small buy-in tourny its a valid move.

i can't think of how many times someone is all-in on the first hand of a sng. most inexperienced players will see this play as a pure bluff and will call with marginal hands.

the other plus is that if your going to be at the same table for some time this is going to give you a great image that can be exploited later.

Hmmm....I'd advocate the 3x formula (re-reaise to 270-ish), but the above explanation makes sense. If your table image is donkish, you'll get some action on hands where your raise would normally be folded around. It's very dependant on that intangible, however, and is therefore unreliable, imo.

At a donkish table, I like. I'm curious though, what hand range do you make this play with early on?

well i think its safe to say QQ, KK, AA & Aks or Ako.

i think it starts to get fuzzy around JJ & AQs. im not sure i would be comfortable pushing these hands early.

On Pokerstars $10 and under I'll push JJ and AQ as well.

I believe ak, and aa-1010 are profitable here from what i can see. I don't usually make this play, maybe once or twice ever, i was jsut seeing whta you guys thought

In this type of tournament, there is merit to the play.

In the first few levels play Super Tight , (AA, KK, QQ, AK), and superaggressive (push) and you can do well.

You WILL get called by hands like 88-JJ, AQ, A8s and a bunch of other garbage.

I think you can be profitable in the long run with this hand.

Then, as long as you effectively change gears by about the 4th level, you will then be able to catch the better players off guard later.

Not the play I generally make (I just can't get myself to overbet a pot like that), but I have no doubt that it is profitable in larger online mtt's. The weakest players will generally only be around for so long, so it's important to extract the most out of them while they are still there. I have seen donks call allins like that with all kinds of hands (any pair, any ace, any 2 picture cards).

I think I've decided I'm sticking with this strategy and other Kill Phil type stuff. In the early levels I'm never folding AA, KK, QQ, AK so I might as well push. The tourney I'm in now I re-raised all-in with AKs and while the initial raiser folded, the small blind cold called with 44. People just play so wicked loose at these low levels hoping to get lucky I really can't fault this type of move. If you raise and take the blinds you win peanuts. If you raise get callers but they all fold on the flop, you've still won peanuts all things considered. On the other hand, the potential for you to get cracked by Q9, T7, A3, etc and then go broke is pretty great. Just push and put people to the test and leave it up to the poker gods to decide whether you're fated to run deep in this tourney.

Well aren't I a hypocritical retard. Just broke my own rule and tried to play QQ "normally" instead of just pushing at the $25/$50 level in a MTT. Pwned by 65s so guess I deserved that.

a couple hands from last nite:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t40 (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

CO (t2940)
Button (t3431)
SB (t2489)
BB (t3180)
UTG (t3160)
UTG+1 (t3020)
UTG+2 (t2920)
Hero (t2960)
MP2 (t2900)
MP3 (t2850)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A , A .
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t40, 1 fold, Hero is all-in[t2960] 4 folds, SB calls [t2489] t20, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls t2920.

sb had AQo and utg+1 had KK.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

SB (t6940)
BB (t8152)
UTG (t7563)
UTG+1 (t8394)
UTG+2 (t4854)
MP1 (t5420)
MP2 (t2966)
Hero (t9911)
CO (t1477)
Button (t1722)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q , Q .
2 folds, UTG+2 calls t100, 1 fold, MP2 calls t100, Hero is all-in[t9911], CO calls [t1477] , Button calls [t1722] , 2 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP2 folds.

CO had JTs and button had AK. both insta-called.

So when were you planning on sending me my royalties?

If you think you can get a caller, go for it. Otherwise, play poker.

lol, godo way to put it.

i'll buy you a beer sometime.

yeah i feel a little cheap doing this (it takes zero skill) but god damn these people at low buy-in mtts call with absolute trash. in the few days i've been experimenting people are calling with all kinds of ****.

the other thing is, your 1st push might not get called but the 2nd is an almost lock. (assuming the same table) i just pushed 2 hands in a row. the 1st was JJ on the button after a few limpers and everyone folded. the 2nd was AK in the CO after a few limpers and the sb took about 3 seconds before calling with AJo. (he spiked a J and knocked me out strategy so the beer deal is off!)

I know what you're saying but I've decided I've made enough final tables and won enough MTT's and SnG's to feel confident in my skill. I don't need to pwn a donkey out of $100 chips early on to re-confirm that. Plus I just love doubling up early. The fish who called my all-in on the 4th hand with KJo would've folded on the flop normally but pre-flop OMG 2 FACE CARDS!11!!!!

The hooker doesn't stipulate that my money was won playing ABC poker, copernicus.

Then get a higher class of hooker.


As I said..if you think you can get a call go for it. In the games I play in this is clearly a losing play, only being called by AA, KK or a rare AK.