Ok. This is my first post, so be kind. No real reads on villian.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB ($48.40)
UTG ($102.75)
UTG+1 ($125.95)
UTG+2 ($173.10)
MP1 ($115.95)
MP2 ($57)
Hero ($130.40)
CO ($95)
Button ($100.45)
SB ($100)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q:heart:, Q:diamond:. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $1, 3 folds, Hero raises to $4, 4 folds, UTG+1 calls $3.

Flop: ($9.50) T:spade:, 3:spade:, 9:club: (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $7, UTG+1 raises to $14, Hero raises to $35, UTG+1 raises to $56, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $100.50

Ok. First off, am I correct in folding here? At this point, my options appear to be either fold or push.

Second, I'm pretty sure my re-raise was bad (ok really bad). I'm thinking that I'd have been better off calling his check/raise and then calling down reasonable bets on the turn and river. And, if I'm going to re-raise, wouldn't I be better off just pushing? A check/raise by him seems likely given a set of 9's or 10's, an overpair, or a good draw (like AKs or QJs). The only overpair that might not re-raise pre-flop would be the jacks. So, I doubt he had one of those. All the others seem plausible given the pre-flop action.

What bothers me about the hand is that afterwords I commented that I thought I might have had the best hand, and he indicated that I probably did and that he would have folded to a push. Is there any hand that check/raises, min-reraises my re-raise, and then folds to a push? Is there any sane player that goes to such great lengths on a bluff?

Thanks for any feedback.

I probably would not have re-raised on the flop... I would have just called his check-raise and re-evaluated on the turn.

Possibly JJ, but, I doubt it.

That's about the only hand you're beating here, except, maybe a very poorly played AT.

Pretty well standard for a decent player, IMHO.

Good work.

I don't think you played the hand horribly. I agree with the advice just to call the flop c/r and re-evaluate on the turn, but the raise isn't bad either as it smokes out an AT and punishes an overly aggressive naked flush or straight draw. When villain comes over the top of your reraise I think you have to fold; best case is JJ, with other not-quite-so-disastrous possibilities including J Q or other big draws (even J K is possible here is villain is very aggressive, and that's not that bad at all). Still, it's much more likely that you're drawing to two outs against a set or a fancily played AA or KK (which, in my experience, is stupidly rampant at those limits). Five outs against 9T (if opponent is loose) isn't much better. Exit and get your money in better at a later date.

Wasn't played terribly. Not very good, but not terribly. I'd probably call the check-raise instead of re-raising. He's playing the hand as if it's a made hand, so he probably isn't on a draw. To me a call BB then call a raise tends to signify some sort of strength. Not a massive amount, but some strength. I'd figure either a set or an overpair. But with pocket queens, you have at least see the turn and see where you really stand. If you hit your set, then I'd push all in.

I'm a bit confused by those of you who say we should call and see a turn. What's a safe turn outside of a Q? What is it that I should be looking for to really make me think, "Okay, my hand has improved."?

While I get that we're "priced in" per se, I really don't think we're beating many hands here. JJ? AT? That's about it. I really don't see 88 playing it that way. 87s, perhaps? Not real likely. Maybe two big cards and a flush draw? That's a distinct possibility. AsKs, KsQs, perhaps. Maybe even, God forbid, QsJs--but all in all, this is really kinda sketchy to me.

It smells an awful lot like a set or AA, KK. Let's not forget that UTG+1 could've been trying to trap by limp/calling with a big pair--or even a hand like 99/TT, which both seem plausible.

It sounds an awful lot like I'm getting 4-1 on my money to draw to 2 outs--and the Qs might not even be good.

Yea, I'm confused about that too. Are we just check/folding UI on the turn? If so, I wouldn't even call the C/R. To me, I only call the C/R if I plan to go into check/call mode against an overly aggressive villain. But this pot is a little too big now to go ahead with that line.

If this flop were less draw heavy, I think we can walk away from this fairly easy. Sucks that there's a flush and str8 draw there and you don't have any real understanding of the way he plays his draws.

IMO, if you're winning here, he's on a draw and you're really not in great shape. If you're losing, I think you're up against a set. (But a player who is going to min C/R and min rereraise may be playing AA like this). In my mind, it comes down to the fact that if villain has a really strong draw and plays his draws strongly, he's getting all his money in on the flop. If villian has a strong made hand, he wants to charge the draw, but not run out other strong hands that will call down which is how I would interpret his minibetting. I wouldn't be suprised if this is A10, but I think that's the only hands you're dominating right now, and there's a lot of hands that are dominating you or are about even money. I think you're line is best here.

This was my basic point.

Seems like we're calling that min-raise with the idea that we're going to wait and see if he fires another bullet at us on the turn. And if he does? Then we're just folding? Or are we calling? And if we call, what's our river action?

I'm probably folding to the fourth raise without a read--and I'm not real sure that it's even close unless I decide he's a donk in between the flop and the turn and that I'm getting this all in, come hell or high water, on the turn.

It sounds like an awful lot of you are wanting to call in hopes of snagging a queen on the turn--well, one of those queens might give someone else the nuts and leave us drawing. Just something to keep in mind.

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


"Here's some advice, Noob, take it to heart...IF YOU HIT YOUR TOP SET ON THE TURN, YOU SHOULD THEN GO ALL IN!"

I believe The Nuts is a donk.

Also, I don't think you can go to the turn here without folding or getting your money in. Agreeing with Scott and Drawing, there's no card that will change your mind except a Q.

At these levels, people do strange and dumb things to bluff. So yes.

I keep getting the sense that his reraise was a test to see if you had a real hand or was just bluffing at the pot because you were the pre-flop raiser. He might have hit something, but I don't think it's real strong. Either that or he has a draw. I see enough people at this level who would reraise with top pair that I wouldn't put him on a monster yet. My gut reaction is to push.

As for the hand, I don't really think I want to go to the turn. After his reraise to $14, you need to bump it up to $60 or $70 and be done with it. Draws should leave. Trips will go over the top and you're done with the hand. The only guy who might call is two pair and an over pair, but then they'll be unsure of where they are (thinking you have trips).

This is JQ or *maybe* a set of 9's.

Limp-calling from UTG or UTG+1 generally denotes small to medium pp, and for bad players, medium range hands like J10 to AJ.

You are ahead of a lot of those hands (granted, not by much). A set would probably put you all in on the first raise for fear of all of the draws and the assumption you had overs.

I'd call this one. I'm feeling a draw with two overs... not even suited (QJos)



I agree completely.

I don't get that either. With high pp you are playing with fire if you let the hand survive past the flop. I don't advocate that at all. Get your information on the flop by raising/re-raising, evaluate that information, it's cheaper than calling an all-in on the river when dude gets 2 pair or whatever.

You know that you had the best hand pre-flop, and that flop isn't particularly scary save for the draw potential and low set.

Two bolded parts above confuse me.

I'm sorry, I thought UTG+1 was all-in.

Confusing Bolded Part #1: I'd push

Confusing Bolded Part #2: When you have high pp, your hand is not improving. Your opponent was a far better chance of improving than you do. Going past the flop with high pp vastly increases the proportion of losses you will take.

Hmm. Must have been a momentary insanity that caused me to say "call and re-evaluate." I blame sleep depravation. Good thing I didn't play last night. I actually read my own post and thought "What a weak-tight fish!"

I retain that there may be some value in getting a read off of how your opponent plays the turn (and there may be some circumstance in which you might want to bluff when a draw-filling card hits on the turn - particularly a spade, representing A K - though getting people to lay down a set is often very tough even in the face of an obvious board, and this is playing with fire regardless).



It's risky thinking, imo, to assume that your opponents are always reading board texture. If you have a specific read on the player as good and aggressive, then sure. How many players, whenever they flop a set, get all googly-eyed and enter immediately into "chip extraction" mode, no matter how scary the board is (so long as it shows more than one suit)? Assuming that the min. raise rules out a set is very very risky imo.

Regardless, I think the OP had it right.