This is probably pretty standard, but I just have a couple of questions in an effort to better maximize my big hands/draws.

A.) Do you lead that flop or go for a checkraise? (I didn't re-raise because with just two callers it wouldn't have been for value, correct?)
B.) On the turn after picking up a pair, should I have raised figuring I just picked up a few more outs (I didn't figure either player for AK)?
C.) Just bet the river or go for a checkraise?

Party Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.50/$1
10 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is BB with [Kh] [6h]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, 2 folds, 2 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: [9h] [Ah] [Qs] (4.5SB, 4 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, CO raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: [Ks] (6.25BB, 4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP3 folds, CO calls, Hero calls.

River: [3h] (9.25BB, 3 players)
Hero...?

Thanks for the input!

I like it as played. With no PFR you need to lead this flop. As for 3-betting ... most villain who'll call one on the flop will call 2 more back but I don't like to tempt this. I always call here and hope to keep everyone around.

Turn check/call is perfect.

I'm not sure what to do on the river since my flush draws never hit ... nah. Gotta lead here. Lots of hands will call and a lot of TP hands will not bet this river if checked to them.

lead flop, good. c/r might be good but we want to make sure $$ is going in the pot on this flop.

i think i just check/call turn. UTG waking up there says you probably need to hit your flush to be good

river i go for the c/r, but it would really suck getting checked through. although it looks like UTG hit a straight or good 2 pair and will almost always bet.



UTG called twice on the flop and woke up on the turn. if this isnt at the very least KQ i quit playing poker.

I missed that the lead changed on the turn. Quick read had me thinking the guy that raised the flop was the one that bet the turn.

I still like leading the river. Then again I think I've tried to c/r the river on a made flush about 3 times in the last 20K hands and it's failed all 3 times.

I think a c/r would be best here too. One of them will bet, CO could be on a lower hearts draw. I think the value you get from the times you will be successful with the c/r will be greater than the value you lose when it's checked through. Maybe someone can correct me on that?

I think part of the reason I like leading that river is because of the fact that the lead changed on the turn. It seemed to me like UTG was leading on the turn looking to shut me out by hoping CO would raise again or something like that or had a top pair type hand and was leading a non-heart turn. That said, I'm not sure how frequently I expect someone to bet again on that river due to the quasi-transparency of my hand and the fact that CO isn't likely to bet after the turn. Maybe I'm giving a .50/1 player far too much credit...

your hand's not that transparent. If you 3-bet the flop and then checked the turn, it would be. Lots of hands bet out and call a raise then check/call the turn.

flop: with no indication of who will bet this, it tends to come form later pos. A c/r would not be good in that case. A check thru, although rare, is lousy for you. Leading is good, unless you had reason (like he raised pf) to suspect a bet/raise from one of the two next to act. If you three bet, you might lose your field, and no need for that. You K outs are pretty lousy anyway, so cleaning pair outs up is not an issue

turn: lead if you think the 'tweeners call and CO raises again and everyone calls your 3-bet and no one has a better K, or Aces UP, or A6, or ..
Or better yet, c/c like you did. I think the raise would be discussable if you were in LP and we saw the action first.

river: go for c/r. you have set this up and the turn bettor is in perfect pos.

Well played.


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c/r will make you 4 BB's a lot the way the hand played.
Leading out will make you 2. Unless they are retards, in which case, a c/r makes you 6+.

If it's checked thru you lose 2 BB at most. And I would say that you weren't getting two callers a lot of times in that case. C/r will also earn you some free showdowns later on. If UTG checks to and CO bets, still c/r.

Just thought I'd give results:

Sorry, Rise...looks like you're done with poker. Both UTG and CO had AJ. I was very surprised when I saw that, bordering on shocked. The way it played out in this case was I actually bet the river. Both called, and seeing that they had AJ I could've gone either way on figuring either of them to bet the river.

I think it worked out well for me that they both called, but the way the hand played out, I probably could've expected UTG to bet one more time on the river, so the c/r probably has more value in this spot. AJ was way weaker than I was expecting to see with that turn bet, and most hands that play like that bet the river.

I knew that seemed results oriented. If you look at the hand as one of us (i.e. you werent in the hand) it doesnt look at all like he was waiting for a non heart turn to bet. Atleast not to me anyway

EDIT: with the action in the hand, c/r the turn almost always works, as I think Act pointed out. with CO's flop raise says he has a hand good enough that even if it checks all the way to him on the river, he'll bet. IF UTG hadn't woken up and it was CO who bet the turn, betting the river would be closer. IMO

Like I said in my last post, the more I look at it, the more I definitely should've had reason to think someone would bet the river. As far as being results oriented clouding my thought process in previous posts, I don't know if it's that as much as it was strange logic on my part while actually playing the hand.

Also, I'm not terribly sure I like c/r the turn so much. In a perfect world with two players having AJ in that hand, sure, my outs are clean as a whistle, but I don't expect to have really picked up any significant extra outs based on UTG betting the turn. Like you said, I should expect to see KQ at least there, so I don't know if I have too much extra value against only two opponents.

But yeah, non-results oriented thinking, c/r should've seemed good on the river.

pretty sure Rise meant c/r River, since he sighted Actuary, who certainly ddi not recommend c/r turn.

Now that you mention it...I'll rephrase my previous post:


Yes. I agree.

me too. it's been a long day.

I can't believe you guys are not 3-betting this flop.

Even if one villain folds we still would've been pushing our equity edge!

Easy c/r on the river.

pk,

I think it's close. maybe 3 bet better.
My reasons not to

we check call turn and its looks pretty obvious.
we set a c/r up better this way on river, our hand is disguised.

We may make a BB bet off someone here on turn/river that would've folded to a flop 3-bet.

again..I think it's too close to matter.

I certainly would've 3-bet that flop if I figured to have any way of winning the hand besides just the flush coming in. Putting in another bet wouldn't have had specific value at the time and may have lost me a couple of BBs on the later streets. Give me overcard outs that may have been clean and sure I'm 3-betting, but I just didn't think I had enough value for it here.

This one is tough for me:

Flop: I lead out. If you were going for a checkraise, I think you’d want to reraise someone from early position (our edge is very good with a flush draw and three callers) and I don’t think there is any way we can know where a bet would come from. Once the CO raises, we want the overcalls.

Turn: For whatever reason, I want to lead out on this turn. It seems like the right play to me at this point… I’m curious to read the replies.

River: I don’t know. I think I’d lead out because I’m worried it is probably going to be checked behind me.

<<reading replies>>

Okay, I think I'd still play the flop the same. c/c turn and c/r river both make sense to me now.