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Dhall901
I've been putting a lot of thought into the effects of using the min raise in tournament play. Generally I think it is used to build a pot when you have potential drawers and a lock on the hand. However, red flags always fly up in my head when I'm min raised. Often times I don't care how good of a hand I have, if it's not a lock, I'll fold to a min raise. It just screams dead give away to me. Many times people will min raise with premium pairs, looking to be raised, and act accordingly. Other times a check min raise unveils a small set, or even a flopped flush or straight. I believe the check raise is very strong in itself, but the check min raise is lethal. The min raise is so inviting, it begs to be called, it begs to be raised. Perhaps it's a carry over from those that spend time playing limit..

Any thoughts??
caribstv
QUOTE (Dhall901 @ Thursday, February 23rd, 2006, 8:27 AM) *
I've been putting a lot of thought into the effects of using the min raise in tournament play. Generally I think it is used to build a pot when you have potential drawers and a lock on the hand. However, red flags always fly up in my head when I'm min raised. Often times I don't care how good of a hand I have, if it's not a lock, I'll fold to a min raise. It just screams dead give away to me. Many times people will min raise with premium pairs, looking to be raised, and act accordingly. Other times a check min raise unveils a small set, or even a flopped flush or straight. I believe the check raise is very strong in itself, but the check min raise is lethal. The min raise is so inviting, it begs to be called, it begs to be raised. Perhaps it's a carry over from those that spend time playing limit..

Any thoughts??



It depends on The person.. and the situtaion. It can mean anything
Dhall901
QUOTE (caribstv @ Thursday, February 23rd, 2006, 9:17 AM) *
It depends on The person.. and the situtaion. It can mean anything



Granted every move is situational, but I'm talking multi-way pots, early in a tourney, with little knowledge of your opponents. Why would anyone bluff with a min raise? Or more importantly, who would fold to a min raise (early in the tourney where blinds are very small relative to your stack). The min raise is a tool to build the pot with a great draw, or a made monster..
Honestly, how many times have you raised, had your bet doubled, and then pushed only to discover that you are dominated?
copernicus
QUOTE (Dhall901 @ Thursday, February 23rd, 2006, 4:04 PM) *
Granted every move is situational, but I'm talking multi-way pots, early in a tourney, with little knowledge of your opponents. Why would anyone bluff with a min raise? Or more importantly, who would fold to a min raise (early in the tourney where blinds are very small relative to your stack). The min raise is a tool to build the pot with a great draw, or a made monster..
Honestly, how many times have you raised, had your bet doubled, and then pushed only to discover that you are dominated?


Min-raises are also used a lot in EP by small ball players. It does have some fold equity (especially from those who fear its a show of great strength), doesnt commit to the pot, and if it gets callers has some decent implied odds if the stack/blind ratio is large because flops that hit are hard to read.
cubbybri
Pre-flop I rarely raise the min. Only if I'm playing a really passive table and playing out of early position will I try. For anyone paying attention, I play strong hands up front and I hate getting cracked in tourney play when a raise can eliminate a lot of the crap.

But since I'm usually playing premium cards, I usually want someone to call and the min raise will let that happen with some players. Then some players will read me as weak and I can break them.

If still no takers on min raise up front, I'll loosen my ahnd selection and become a blind/ante stealer from ep. Doesn't happen often.

Post flop, if I was not the pre-flop raiser, very often I will throw out the min raise in a three way pot. It works out to be a third of the pot and I play it this way for two reasons.

As long as I am consistent, the play cannot be read as either strong or weak.

If I hit a monster, a lot of people seeing the min raise will perceive as weak and I can then thump them or if the board is not scary become a caller to milk them for what it's worth. If I'm just trying to make a play, it's a standard size probe bet.

For anyone paying attention, the only betting read they can make on me for a hand I limp in and then raise on the flop is that my bet size will be 1/3 of the pot.

If they fold, great. If they play back I can fold for little $ or jump back at them.

Min raises on fourth and fifth streets I feel are pretty useless unless the flop has been checked.

A min raise on these streets to me accomplishes nothing. Smart players and calling stations will usually call the bet. If you actually have a hand you should be betting for value and the pot is usually too large to only bet the min.

If you are playing a weak player and are trying to slow the betting, I suppose a min raise could slow down the betting depending on the board.

This may not be the best advice but that's how I see play it normally.

And from me as the villain standpoint, if someone min raises me early, I will usually respect and hope someone else will challenge so I can see the cards they are doing it with. Once I get a feeling on what hands they min raise with, you can now make a game plan against that player.

If I have a nut draw or a strong made hand, you play along and hope they are not roping you in. If they are and you hit your nut draw, heehee, great. If you have top two pair get burned by a set, well now you know for next time you play that opponent.

Information is always the key, without it I tend to respect the bet until proven otherwise but to me this goes to anyone's bet early. That's my preference.

My only other tidbit would be, if you are unsure and don't want to fold, DO NOT CALL. You need to gain info and calling a min raise will tell you nothing. The only exceptions to this would be if you have the nut hand or a really strong hand and you know you are ahead.

Hope this shows at least one persons point of view but even if this is not the correct info, at least you know how this player feels and since there are so many others out there, there has to be a few that have the same feelings.

2 cents.
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