Live game, UTG with A:spade: K

Game is very soft, with the exception of the Button, who is a good friend, and also a very good player.

I raise, get 4 cold callers, and the Button calls.

Flop is A:heart:,T:club:,4:spade:

I lead out, get two callers, and Button raises.

Button is a good player, and he's got to know I'm bringing the heat with a PF raise UTG, which he cold called, and is now raising me.....

what do you do? and what do you do acting first on the turn?

If he's a good player, what is he cold calling with on the button with that beats you? Perhaps maybe TT, 44 or AT suited, but that's about it. You're likely ahead here.

Regardless, I'm 3-betting this flop and trying to shut out the other 2 players. With a good read, maybe you can fold if he caps or bet/fold the turn, but not 3-betting the flop is pretty stupid.

Yeah, I thought so.

I three bet the flop got called, let out on the turn only to get raised, and called down from there. He had a set of 4s. I kinda knew I was beat when he raised on the flop, because the only hand that he'd cold call then raise with on this flop would be AJ (maybe AQ, but I think he'd probably 3-bet PF with this hand).

Just wondering if any of you are getting to showdown more cheaply in this situation.

Given your description of this player, I think you can consider folding the turn in this spot. It's hard to see a good player not 3-betting pre-flop and raising the turn here without a hand that beats AK. It's kind of hard to see him making this play with AQ or AJ.

It's not so bad calling down though, it's a big pot and there's a chance your hand may be good.

Showdowns are good with TPTK on a pretty much uncoordinated board... if Actuary has tought me anything.

Don't 3-bet this flop. You won't shut out these loose players. Wait for the turn and c/r.

There are no obvious draws on the board, so your friend is probably not raising for a free card. You will also get a much more honest reply from him on the turn.

KQ, KJ look like draws to me that the cold callers may have. If you just call the raise, you give them proper odds to call with these hands.

You give them proper odds if you 3-bet too. They're loose, so they'll call.

Ok, guys..... The hand never happened.

I figured I'd give you a little more insight into what I was thinking when I said "raise" in this post:

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...7785&highlight=

It was nice to see that Screech said call the flop raise/check-raise the turn, because it means my reasoning in the other post wasn't completelyretarded, since I could sometimes see a free river card.

But In hindsight, Screech was right about what he said in that post, raising was a bad play since you'll get 3-bet alot of the time with the hands you're drawing at (like AK or AQs), and the hands you're drawing to backdoor draws against (AA, maaybe TT). I thought maybe the UTG would call, and check confused by my cold-call PF, raise flop play...... and then I obviously check behind to see the river cheaply.

Stupid play. Good thing I made it on a poker forum, instead of at the table. :wink:

Er, why in the world would you even consider raising for a free card (in the post you linked)?

I didn't notice how bloated the pot was already, so I guess they do have odds to draw at the gutshots, but anyways I still feel 3-betting is best. It defines your hand and allows you to get away from it as well. I don't think this is a situation where your automatically thinking you must show this hand down.

I still don't particularly like that C/R turn line, because the button may be trying to raise for a free card, raise just to see where they are at. Your also in a bad spot if you get 3-bet on the turn as well. There's no guarantee that this turn is being bet and I think I can probably lay this hand down to heavy turn action.

Also, I don't see what relevance this hand has to that other hand posted in another thread, they're totally different situations.

Because Wrto said that the villan in that post was good, and knew that wrto was good, so maybe he sees the play, and calls the raise with top pair hoping to C/R the turn or flat calls out of confusion/concern. It's not a play that I really make, and as I said it's a stupid play that you shouldn't make. But with a pot that big, maybe you can draw to your outs cheaply.

It's the same hand, except the hero in this hand is the villan in that hand.