PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with [3s], [8s].
UTG calls, MP calls, 2 folds, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (12 SB) [2s], [Ah], [5s] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG calls, MP calls.

Turn: (12 BB) [8d] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG folds, MP calls.

River: (15 BB) [9d] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero folds, MP calls.

Final Pot: 17 BB

Fold pre-flop?

I would cap the flop, the rest looks standard.

Preflop is meh. It's gonna be 4 handed, so you are basically getting 7-1 on the call. We can't assume MP is gonna donk raise preflop here. So it's an ok preflop call, IMO.

I would consider capping flop as well, MP and SB aren't going anywhere, but I suppose going for UTG's overcall is just the same.

Rest is standard.

I fold pre-flop. I'll generally complete out of the SB with this hand, but I not call a raise from the BB. I know the odds are essentially the same, but the difference I see, and I think it's a big one, is that if I complete out of the SB, no one has shown any strength and I'm far more likely to have decent equity than I am if someone has raised and there could very easily be hands out there that I have way less equity against.

i would fold preflop there

Fold preflop, cap the flop, call the turn, and fold on the river.

Why would you want to raise the turn and drive out likely callers (and your equity edge)?

?
:?

8)

pre-flop is fine.

cap the flop though.

On what grounds can we say that preflop is fine?

Is there any detailed data to suggest that it is? Or are we basing it on intuition alone?


Anyways, for the turn...

The turn is weird. The pot is pretty big, and we have 17 likely outs to improve against TPTK. We dont have to get bigger pairs to fold often to make it a really effective raise.

We also potentially clean up quite a few of our outs by raising. Obviously we arent getting folds from better flush draws, but pairs with gutshots fold; probalby cleaning up as many as 3 to 4 cards. If SB is playing a nut flush draw aggressively and we get bigger pairs (and as much as an ace)to fold the turn, we can take the pot unimproved too.

I said call the turn dude.

you might be the most unintentionally annoying poster.
if not, then it's intentional
no offense.

********************

btw, preflop is almost always 7:1.
I think Timmy can handle that.
If its -EV it's not by much.
For most of you demanding he folds Pre-FLop, I would to if I were you.

If 9 people limp to you and you have suited rags on the button, do you limp because you're getting (more than) 10:1?

I doubt it.

preflop is 10.5:1.
I think Timmy can handle that.
If its -EV it's not by much.

(this time it's intentional)

you lost me

9 limpers+sb+bb...

I guess we like our 12 handed tables. I'm not complaining though :-)

Oh, and I still think pre-flop sucks, 38s is an awful hand.

Yeah, im a bit slow.

But the point is that having a high ratio like that isnt really a good reason to call if it's primarily a reflection of how many hands you're facing.

my point was not that the pf call was good..but more that it's pretty silly that it's noted in almost all responses.

Zach got it right.

Tim is not beyond reproach, but it's really a waste to emphasis the preflop play here.

Calling getting 7:1 against 3 opponents is not the same as calling getting 7:1 against 7 opponents. That's not important anyway.

Huh? It's in no way a waste to respond to every street in a post.

No idea what you're thinking here.

generally too much discussion on preflop.
I can't bring much more advanced knowledge, because I don't have it..but I wish we didn't worry about whether Tim calls here or not and spent more time on other pieces..and that goes for other posts..that's all

I made like one comment about preflop, and a whole paragraph about the turn.

...

so about that turn.

How about raising it?

yes, i should cap the flop.

i know what i was thinking at the time, but it was wrong.

i could raise the turn for a free showdown, but i really don't think my 8s are good often enough justify putting in more chips before i improve.

as for clearing up outs, i really don't see it. the only shot is if i raise and someone folds a 4 and a 3 hits the river, but this is really unlikely so i don't think it justifies raising either.

17 likely outs. If you get even one cold caller and a call from the bettor, it's basically for value unless someone has a high flush draw or a set. If you get folds, you potentially clean up quite a few cards.

If SB is pushing hard with a high flush draw, we can potentially get pairs that are beating us to fold behind.

i'd have no problem raising this in position, but since i'm pushing a slim equity edge if there are three to the river, i need to be pretty sure there will be at least one cold caller. i don't think people like to cold call turn bets often enough for me to value raise.

If they dont call, you occasionally can take the pot down unimproved.

If they do call, it's for value.


And since the pot is going to be at least 15 big bets by the river, there's definitely a lot of value in being able to show down second pair for free.