Hey guys-

I don't post here much, but I would like some insight on this hand. I've been agonizing over this all day. Let me set it up a little bit. I had been playing fairly aggressively at the final table, with a number of steals and showdowns with average hands. The guy directly to my left, lilliegirl, had doubled up off me once and I had been clashing with him/her quite a bit.

A few hands before this one, we played a pot where I raised preflop, bet the flop and the turn with bottom pair. He called me down with middle pair, showing a willingness to play back at me with mediocre cards. He also knew that I was playing less than stellar hands. So on this hand, I made a fairly standard play from the small blind, and made a normal continuation bet on the flop. He took all of the alloted time before moving all in. I figured that he would make this play with any pair, and possibly ace high, because of the range of hands I had. The pot odds weren't the best, but I went with my gut. Do you guys think I should have laid this down? Thanks in advance.


#Game No : 3480569481
***** Hand History for Game 3480569481 *****
NL Texas Hold'em Trny:19774170 Level:21 Blinds (10000/20000) - Thursday, February 02, 03:56:00 EDT 2006
Table $40K Guaranteed(587002) Table #1 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 1: brodieman777 ( $217906 )
Seat 2: starkvictory ( $395286 )
Seat 6: aflpete10 ( $464090 )
Seat 3: Lilliegirl ( $663270 )
Seat 5: over18only ( $582448 )
Trny:19774170 Level:21
Blinds (10000/20000)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to starkvictory [ Qh Qd ]
brodieman777 folds.
starkvictory raises [40000].
Lilliegirl calls [40000].
over18only folds.
aflpete10 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2c, 4d, Kh ]
starkvictory bets [73300].
Lilliegirl raises [597300].
starkvictory is all-In [281986]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Jc ]
** Dealing River ** [ 8s ]
Lilliegirl shows [ Td, Ks ] a pair of kings.
starkvictory shows [ Qh, Qd ] a pair of queens.
Lilliegirl wins 242014 chips from side pot #1 with a pair of kings.
Lilliegirl wins 820572 chips from the main pot with a pair of kings.

Please delete the results. They alter the feedback.

I would prefer to see a bigger raise here preflop. You are waiting until the flop to commit chips. That allows a wide variety of hands into the pot. Plus you have a losse image, giving her even a wider range of hands to call you with.

Your flop bet was good, her response told you what you need to know. If she has a mediocre hand she will not put her tournament on the line. The previous hand she played a medium pair to the river, she probably did not get all of her chips in the middle. If she is willing to put her tournament on the line, she has to have 2nd pair beat. When she pushed it makes it an easy fold. Other than a stone cold bluff, you are losing.

OK, thanks for the advice. Sorry about the results thing, I just copied the history without thinking about it. I think I was trying to overanalyze the hand at the time, making up reasons as to why she would push without a king rather than just making the fold.

Don't post results, you'll usually get less biased answers. But I probably would've called too. Why would he make this bet? Any hand that has him beat will make the call and almost all the hands that he would want a call from won't. The only hands he has to worry about you passing him on the turn are an Ace hand or a pocket pair, so you're drawing to 2 or 3 outs. I would expect a King to just call the flop bet. So when I see something like that where it just doesn't make any sense, I'm usually thinking bluff.

OP has an aggressive image, so the standard pre-flop raise followed by continuation bet won't necessarily mean anything to the villain. OP could be doing this with any pocket pair or Ace. If the villain thinks that OP has a pocket pair or an Ace, then the villain could come over the top with a (possibly) worse pair or Ace and win the pot. That's why I wouldn't be convinced the villain had a King. Also, she's not putting her tournament on the line, if she loses she'll still have about $270,000 left and could be using her chip lead to bully.

This information here leads me to believe that villain does not have a King:



Obviously we know villain did in fact have a King, so I guess my argument better be pretty good.

Look at what we know, we know the OP has been aggressive at this table with a number of steals and mediocre showdowns. We know the villain is capable of playing back with mediocre cards and we know the villain seems to have a read on the OP's aggressiveness. On top of that, the villain took all the time possible.

Maybe this is a live game thing, but usually the more time taken means the decision is between call and fold. The fact that he would take all of that time before pushing would lead me to believe he doesn't have it.

I can't see how the villain would put the OP on a hand as big as Queens. Does the villain think OP has KQ or KJ and he's trying to represent AK?

Also knowing that the villain will still have $270k if wrong is another bit of information that leads me to think that the villain is just making a play at this pot.

Hobbes, I think the problem is you aren't thinking like a donk.

A good player might just call on the flop, what is is a donk thinking? "I have kings, man! raise it up! They aren't thinking of what you are holding or what you might call with. All they know is they got kings and they should raise.