2/4 10-max (6-handed)

No reads.

Pre-flop: Hero is dealt K K on the Button

UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP calls, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP calls

Flop: (10 SB)

J 10 8

BB bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP calls, Hero raises, Hero calls, UTG calls

Turn: (12.5 BB)

2

UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets, MP folds, Hero calls

River: (16.5 BB)

6

UTG bets, Hero calls

Final Pot: (18.5 BB)



Can we consider a fold to the turn c/r?

Edit: slight confusion with color text, BB confusion

I would fold to the turn C/R, the flop call/3-bet by UTG looks like either a monster or an equity raise with a draw. When he check-raises the club turn it's time to let our hand go.

We'd be getting 15.5:1 to call with an overpair to the board though. Against an unknown, no less.

The flop call/3-bet doesn't have to mean that he has us beat. It could just mean that he is a donkey. It's also possible that he makes this play with a naked 9 or 9 + pair, maybe two pair. In all situations we'd have outs to improve.

We're getting 15.5:1 to call the turn, but only 8.25:1 to call down. I don't see how we're winning this pot 1/9 times.

Unless the villain is super tight and straightforward you see the showdown. You can consider folding the river if a 4th club hits but even then it's iffy. There's enough crazy players out there, 8:1 is plenty to call down in a pot this big.

Zara

Not with two separate people 3betting/capping flop. I fold to the check raise...I'm glad you bet too, way better than checking IMO

Given the action on the flop, is this a wise turn bet?

(I'm genuinely asking)

We're probably behind, but let's find out without giving a free card. IMO betting is good if we're bet/folding, if we're showing down though I think it's an easy check behind.

Absolutely

I respect the general preference to information-bet, but when the clubs get there (and since the unlikely straight is already there), aren't we in showdown-as-cheaply-as-possible mode already?

Basically my question is this: why bet/fold when we can potentially show down for one extra bet on a (relatively) dangerous board?

I want to give a free card with overs as little as the next guy, but this just feels like a minefield to me.

Is that too passive?

The action is weird as **** here.

You have a call/3bet and a call/cap mixed in.

And you lost the big blind somewhere in there too. He called the second bet on the flop, didnt fold, but never made it to the turn.

I would call the river bet. The pot is too big and UTG might have had a pair with a super-draw. You can beat Q-Qc, 9-9c, J-9c and 10-9c. Yes, you're probably beat, but I think you can call 1 more. There's always the online maniac factor.

The call/3-bet and call/caps are genuine, It really frustrated me because you don't see those too often.

I fixed the BB, he was basically factorless in the hand though.

So nobody thinks we should be calling down? The pot is kinda big and the play by the villain is highly erratic, enough to possibly shed doubt on the truth of his actions, no?

Anyway, I actually bet/folded the turn, but wanted to see how people responded to seeing the action as a call down. I'm still not entirely sure that bet/fold was the right move on the turn.

The river isn't really in question, once we get there we know we have to call. The question is whether I should be there in the first place given the turn c/r.

Yes call the turn c/r with the same logic as above.