Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: econ_tim is CO with J:diamond:, J:spade:.
1 fold, MP calls, econ_tim calls.

Flop: (13.33 SB) 4:spade:, A:heart:, 7:spade: (3 players)
MP bets, econ_tim . . .

villains aren't maniacs or anything, nor are they tags

i'm peeling here for one bet, any non spade or J turn and I'm gone. this pot is pretty big, so i want to see another street

Any thoughts on raising, and betting the turn, making him possibly fold KK or QQ? Of course it depends on the reads, but is anyone considering this play?

I don't know whether it would be a call 3-bet/fold turn UI, or fold to a 3-bet on the flop line though.

Any thoughts?

This is a situation where raising with the weaker hand to butt out a stronger hand (the button's presumable QQ or KK) so we can face off with MP. This is talked about in TOP, but mainly for stud games.

If i raise I'm calling one more and folding the turn UI.

I'm out on the flop. This street may get very expensive, and by all accounts you're drawing here.

Love the title BTW.

Fold, not closing the action and mp1 betting out after you 3-bet and someone else capped means you are way way behind.

If you're folding the turn unimproved, the pot isnt laying you enough to call the first bet.

There's going to be a raise behind you probably more often than not, and possibly a 3bet that you clearly cant call. Occasionally you'll be calling 2 small bets to peel here, occasionally 1 to peel, and occasionally 1 only to have to fold. Plus there's always the possibility that you're drawing dead.

I know that i definitely would not peel.

Raising may or may not be better than folding.

If his cap range is extremely narrow and he plays tight in general, there's a good chance that you get him to fold queens or kings. You then have to be banking on the other guy having a pair that's either worse than yours or that he's willing to fold. The probability of all of those things falling into place is slim... but im not sure if the pot size justifies it.

I'd never actually do that, mind you. I'd just fold.

But i can see there being merit in raising.

I think this is a pretty clear fold.

We're drawing to two outs a good majority of the time and it's likely that we are going to be paying more than 1 SB to see the turn.

I'm not seeing this dude leading at the pot with a 3-bet and cap behind him when a raggedy ace flops with anything we beat. And on the off chance we somehow have him beat, button is raising or 3-betting us a lot.
I hate calling and folding the turn because not only aren't you getting a good price immediately for a set and a 4th nut BD 1 card flush draw, but button is raising quite a bit. It could get real expensive.
I don't like raising either because I'm not seeing WTF this guy is leading that we beat. And like I said, even if we have him beat, button is still 3-betting AK/AA/AQs if he caps that.

Folds.

Pretty.... pretty.... PRETTY GOOD.

Jeff

I may call. If it was live. And if I could do that Larry David scrutinizing face.

I'm with the group that's folding the flop. Primarily because the button capped preflop. If he had only called I would call this flop the majority of the time but I think you get raised too often for it to be worth it here. If I had QQ or KK I would probably call though as the flush is cleaner and it's less likely the button has a higher pocket pair.

For what it's worth, calling here is far from horrible, and in actuality it's close either way with more detailed reads being able to push it more one way or the other.

Zarathustra

P.S. A tiny factor for is also it's likely there will be a showdown in this hand so you can get the information of how the people played the hands even if you do fold. In borderline decisions like this I"ll sometimes call with the "bonus" of getting a better read on the players in the hand to play against them later.

Great post, just watched that today. I'm going to be original and agree with everyone and fold on this flop, even if he doesnt have an ace we're not winning.

Pretty easy fold, hes betting into a 3 better and a capper. Even if he doesnt have you beat, the capper does.

I dont know what else you can be ahead of at this point, maybe TT and KQ?

After reviewing the hand, I see we still have another villain, who capped preflop behind us. This makes raising a terrible idea, IMO, and folding is the best play.

I was mistakenly thinking that the only villain in the hand was the one who led the flop.