villan 15/9/2 300 hands

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q:heart:, A:diamond:.
3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) A:spade:, A:heart:, K:heart: (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Button calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) T:heart: (2 players)
Hero bets, Hero calls.

River: (9.75 BB) 6:club: (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.75 BB


what does he Raise the Turn with after I c/r the flop?
why did I c/r the flop?
why did I call down after turn raise?

I'm way ahead of

nothing but 88-99

and dead to

AK/KK

c/c
c/c
b/f better?

or just c/c all the way?

or bet/call
c/f ?

all I know is I played it real bad.

First post...so feel free to quickly discard my thoughts on this one

The coldcall of the raise on the flop is scary. It screams that he is trying to milk the pot. Even if he isn't, and he's trying to minimize his money vested, 4th street is even scarier. Assuming he has a pretty average low limit raise spectrum of aa-99, ak-a10, and if he's feeling loose may 3bet the low end of that range, the number of hands you can beat at this point is pretty slim.

If I had played it out like you up to the flop, I'd change the following play to check/call down to showdown on 4th and 5th on the slight chance he called with a AJ, A9-A8, or a mid pair, but would assume that more than likely, this hand is lost.

If I was to take a line on this hand, I'd cap PF, lead on the flop, assume he would raise if he's still good, 3 bet it, and see where you stand. If he caps, you know you're probably in trouble, but still you are minimizing the amount you vested for that information. From there, check/call down if the flop capped. If it did not, Lead out 4th.

~J

your analysis is better than my play was

welcome!

and of course i changed it right after you posted

I really don't think you butchered this as much as you think.

It's not the flop-call that screams strength, it's the villain's turn raise, but by that point most of the decisions have already been made and the hand plays itself out.

You c/r the flop for value. You bet the turn for value because that's standard. You called the turn because you probably have implied odds to fill up to ur FH or quads.
You called the river because of the 1/11.75 times he turns over AJ.

You played it fine.

p.s an AF of 2 when only seeing 15% of flops is very agresssive i think. you have to call the river imo because you'd rather be the guy with the sore dick (that reference was for wang, screech and i think actuary).

Here are the anwers to your questions, from a Verdimme perspective:

Given the stats of villain you provided, i think his 3bet range is something like this:

AA/KK/QQ/JJ/TT/AK/AQs, and maybe 99 and KQs.

What does he Raise the Turn with after I c/r the flop?

I think he only raises those hands that have you beat. Like: AA/KK/TT/AK...AQs, maybe.

Why did I c/r the flop?

I don't know. This is maybe a situation to take a wa/wb/ line.

Why did I call down after turn raise?

Maybe because you thought you had outs to fill up? Probably 3 tens, 3 queens, maybe kings? You are getting the right odds for that. It sucks not to see SD with such a good hand. However, I think folding that turn is ok. What the F do you beat here, on the turn?

I vote fold that turn.

He can't have AA, it's impossible, and you split with AQs, unless we get another which means we're freerolling against him.

Actuary, you're also way ahead of QQ and JJ, though after the turn I doubt he has one of those. just saying you're ahead of more than 88-99.

I would have spiked the J on the river.

I don't really like flop c/r. What is he possibly calling wiht?

I'm not WA of JJ/QQ because they have 6 outs...so I put that in the "ahead, but not way ahead group"

2 AF on a Tight player, just means they play most of the hands they play with aggression, the VPiP tells me, most of those hands are premium
If he had a loose VPiP and a 1.8 AF, it tells us he plays any piece aggressively, leaving only the "air" hands for calling down.

I butchered this.
Don't let anyone tell you differnt!

So Screech, you don't like Flop c/r?
Or you don't like it once he raises turn?
I was hoping to get value from A9+s, QQ-99

Everytime I start to type out a line, I see problems, what do you all like?

Really 6 outs?




I think you have to check/call this flop. I'm most likely check/calling the turn as well and donk betting just about any river.

I dont think folding is an option at any point during this hand just because of the likelyhood that he makes that raise on the turn hoping for a free SD UI with a hand like QQ or JJ.

I count outs poorly.

ok moving on...


pokerplayer:
You like the WA/WB line

c/c
c/c
b/c

so I lose 1 less SB this way, and don't scare off hands we crush... sounds better than my line.

Do I lose value to QQ-JJ when they check turn and fold river?
I guess I may lsoe 1 SB versus a flop c/r play.

Villan is agg enough to probably keep betting turn with those hands.

Only street I'm not sure on is the river b/c
You think he raises with enough hands we beat ?

As far as the river i'm just not disciplined enough to bet/fold but its quite possible that that is better then bet/calling. Would hate to fold trips in a spot where my opponent has AQ0 0r AJs but I guess how often does he really have that / raise.

JJ has 1-2 outs to beat you, depending on whether the J:heart: is in his hand or not. QQ has 4 outs to split w/ you. YOu are WAY ahead of both.

I noted my bad out counting above :oops:

I know nothing of this limit hold'em you speak of if you guys are thinking of check/calling it down w/ trip aces and a queen for your kicker and then gay-betting the river. I've never seen a wierder line.


I'm really not following...

Well its very simple

Lets say his 3-betting range is AA-99 AK and AQ

On an AAK flop. We are ahead of QQ JJ 1010 and 99 while we are behind AK KK and splitting with AQ.(aka the hands we are behind)

If we checkraise this flop we will most likely fold QQ-99 (aka the hands we are ahead of) and get 3-bet by AK KK and AQ.

By check/calling the flop and turn vs an aggressive player we will win the most when we are ahead and lose the least when we are behind.

It's called a way ahead/way behind line. On this flop with this hand we're either way ahead or way behind...

Ok, I agree with not c/r the flop then, but instead of c/c what about b/c the flop?

We want to give hands like QQ and JJ a chance to bet. If we lead, they almost always fold. If they 3-bet PF, and are checked to on the flop, even a flop like this, they will almost always bet.

I thought wa/wb was more like b/c, b/c, c/c?

Are they both wa or wb or am i smoking crack?

wa/wb is one line

c/c c/c b/c

for what its worth i expect that u probably lose this hand 9 out of 10 times

against a player this tight im almost tempted to just call down as i think he slows down with hands that dont have u beat.

(theres that passive matt coming back haha)