Ok, so you are playing a one table quickstart online and have 1100 in chips left with blinds at 100-200. There are five players left and 8000 in play so you are behind obviously.

You are on the button with A-7 offsuit and everyone else folds. The small blind has 650 left and the big blind has 2200. Would you:

I think I would raise. The small blind is probably going to fold, thinking that if a battle breaks out between me and the BB, I might go broke and he can back into a higher spot with no risk. The BB may be thinking that I'm stealing and call with Q-10, K-J, or even Kx or Qx. I can't see a scenario where you get 2 callers, and I'm not sure that you'll get re-raised, so I probably got the Ace heads up and even if I was pushed all-in on a re-raise by the BB, I'd probably make my stand right there.

Raise, attempt a steal. The short stack is likely to follow- even with a bad hand in an online tourney. Its a good chance to get some chips with your A7.


.. lol my no limit game sucks

In all honesty, I'd like to know what level this is (assume expert play, or the failings of lower-buy-in SNG players), and the relative stacks that have folded, because of its impact on the Big Blind's decision-making... he's getting close to the danger zone of 10xBB but, he also has over the average stack. The distribution of the other 2 stacks is pretty important to the willingness of the BB to look for races or knock-outs.

From this info, my gut reaction is to push. SB needs a big hand to call all in vs. open-pushing, and BB risks 1/2 his stack when he's in at least 3rd already, and probably wishes to conserve his ITM finish. Gamble on neither having a monster (which will be the case often enough), and don't let them have an opportunity to play-back or resteal which would tempt them on the minraise.
Minraise is 400/1100, or 38% of your stack, so it's pot-committing anyways.

If you see them call, prepare to say adios, but a push has a very strong chance of getting much-needed blinds, and beats whatever else you could do here.

I'd push in. Chances are you have the best hand, but your really looking to just take the blinds. If you raise the minimum and get reraised back your gonna probably have to put your chips in anyway due to the pot odds so you might as well do it right here

I swear when I replied that all in option wasn't there

Yes, I'd probably go all in on it, too.

I think you gotta push. A min raise leaves you with 700. Are you commited to pushing on the flop. What if he plays back at you.

I guess you could say that you may goad the SB or BB into making a mistake by pushing with a KJo ir something, but I think you're happy with the blinds here. I'd rather min raise with a stronger hand.

I would go all in, the sb is pretty much all in with anything, the BB has a tough choice, if he calls and wins, hes in great shape, if he loses, hes down to 900 and the low stack 1 away from cashing. If its heads up wtih the SB, even if you lose, youre still in, but in bad shape. Even with a-7 off, youre not dominated by many hands. Even with kk, you can catch an A, 77, a flush, or even a 4 card straight. So I would say push it all!

I originally said move all in, but after thinking about it a little more, I'd probably fold the hand. Granted you are on the button and less than 10x the BB, but still you only have the 102nd best hand possible in Hold'Em. I'd play it conservatively until the blinds come around again. Chances are, you'll find a better hand than A7o.

102nd best?

you're only behind the 13 pairs, and the 6 better aces. so you're holding #20 as far as just the ranks of the cards go for this situation. Hell, there are only 91 hands, or 169 if you distinguish between suited and offsuit, IIRC.

Just wondering how you got that ranking, especially since this is a hand that will run purely hot and cold

....guess I'm the loser than decided to fold.

I just figured it'd look too much like a button steal, and get called by something slightly better. I also thought I'd have another chance to get a better hand, and get in the top 3.

Now, if this were a winner-take-all table, I'd be all-in, but I assumed otherwise.

My first instinct is that this is a fold or All-in hand. Since there is no real point in either calling or raising the minimun.

I think that you can get a better hand in the next 10 hands or so, so A-7o isn't really a very good hand considering that the SB might wake up w/ a bigger Ace, and the BB pretty much will fold anyways unless he had you beat.

So the real threat is SB in my opinion. And he might call w/ almost any hand that have a chance to beat your Ace high.

So my conclusion is fold and wait for a better hand.

wow... there can be a reasonable arguement made on all those. I would honestly make my decision basesd on my image and other peoples image at the table and also the flow of the table (ex: is it all in or fold everyhand, are showdowns still happening, etc.)

Yay for quizes! Anytime Daniel.

The standard play is to move all-in.

A7x is a strong hand 5 handed - worth a play for the pot.

There is 300 in the pot and you are raising it up to 1100. SB must go all in to call, so won't without a real strong hand - he gets many more chances to wait for a good hand and you may get knocked out right now. BB is your worry, but BB must call with half his stack. So, you have a good chance (70%) to take the pot right there and can still win about 1/3 the time with a caller. Forgive my fuzzy math without showing any "work".

300 may not be much but it is almost a 1/3 of your stack and pays for another orbit. Your stack is too small for anything but an all-in move and you seriously need to get some chips. You were in position and got good cards. Take it down.

Gotta move all-in here. Those blinds represent a significant chunk of your stack, so you need that money. You have a hand that beats two average hands. Plus, only the big blind can bust you, and he is probably concerned with conserving his chips at this point. Being that you're in late position with little opposition, you have to push.

Yeah the allin is the standard play, looks and feels like a steal, BB would have to have a hand to make a call here, I cant see him call and risk half his stack for a 200 blind, SB is low on chips and might call with a so so hand, or he could be staying tight and hope to fold his way to the money, but thats a chance you have to take if if you play to win.

It's either fold or all-in, and I would rather be the bettor than the caller.

All-in it is.

I voted for all-in as well.

I certainly don't think you can just call or min-raise, you have too short of a stack for that and if the BB re-raises you then you're going to have to call that anyway so put the pressure on him.

I'd like to know is how those two players have been playing. Has the SB been trying to fold into the money? Did the SB just take a bad beat or make a bad play and lose most of their stack? Has the BB been playing aggressively or also trying to slide into the money? What are the stack sizes of the other 2 players left at the table?

The BB has a little more than 1/4 of the chips in play, so even though the blinds are getting to be big relative to his stack size, and even though he may very well just put you on a steal, I think it will be hard for him to call your all-in without a fairly good hand. He's probably in 2nd or 3rd chip position and won't likely want to risk that on a marginal hand. The SB, if not trying to fold into the money (which depends on the other 2 stack sizes probably) may call all-in with any A-x, big suited connectors, or any PP if he thinks you are stealing and he has a good chance to double up on you. But even if he does wake up to a good hand, as long as the BB folds (which I think is likely) then at least you won't be eliminated yet.

First post ever. I'm giddy with excitement.

Push.

You're likely to have the best hand here, and there are no bubble concerns or unique player situations, so mucking's out.

Limping can't be right. There is money in the middle that increases your stack by 25%. You need to go after at least that much.

Any raise other than a mini-raise puts more than half of your chips in the middle anyway.

Push.

That's the end of my first post ever. It was everything I had hoped it would be...and MORE. :twisted:

I only move in because its 2 out of the money and players are tight right now anyways (for the most part) 2 more people have to go out and you only have 5x the BB anyways. You need to move all in because the minimum raise isnt that strong of a raise. You can't raise 3x the BB because thats 60% of you stack, your all in anyways on the flop so it only makes sense to move all in pre flop?

come on daniel, surely you can come up with something better than this. you move in, its so standard i wonder if its a trick question of sorts and you're going to come up with some crazy idea for another option, or if you play too high level tournaments to come across this as often as it happens in low level sit and gos which tbf is a lot

It might be worth noting this:

Many people say all-in, saying that if you min-raise, and the BB plays back at you with a reraise, you're committed anyway. Doesn't that mean the BB would call if you went all-in? So really, there is no difference: You play for all your chips in either case.

If you min-raise, and the BB moves all-in, you simply call. Also, I think he may sense weakness and try to move you off your hand with a hand that is worse than yours, which wouldn't happen if you moved in.

If you min-raise, and they fold, they'd have folded if you'd moved in.

If you min-raise, and the BB just calls, you're still committed to the hand, but he may bluff at you. If he outflops you, he would've won the hand anyway if you had moved in.

My first instinct here was, like most people's, to move in. But the answer to these quiz questions isn't usually the obvious one. Given that, and the added chance the BB makes a mistake and bluffs at you with a worse hand than yours, I think that while moving in may still be correct, there is something to be said for the non-standard play of raising the minimum.

i have to disagree, raising the minimum is horrible because on the flop you're still commited to the hand, whereas he isnt. so he can take a flop with almost any two cards, knowing that if he flops a pair, draw or better, he can get you all in whatever you have by checking and calling your inevitable all in on the flop (surely nobody checks behind on any flop if you min. raise)

he only loses 200 when he doesnt flop anything, which doesnt bother him when he can have the option of seeing the flop and then deciding if he wants to take a shot at your stack. moving all in means he will either need a premium hand to call for half his stack, or might even call with a worse hand that he figures is likely to be ahead (i make this button push with almost any two cards so if i was called by KQ-JT i wouldnt be surprised)

put simply, A7 is not a hand you want to see the flop with when the pot will be larger than your stack on the flop, moving in is the only rational move, who cares that you get called by AJ or TT sometimes, you cant make a mistake later in the hand by moving in, and i think thats much more important than the chance of getting an extra 200 those times he calls and misses

Well, your hand is too good to fold, so you can’t do that.

I don’t like calling because the small blind is either going to fold or raise all-in. If he folds and the big blind checks, you’ve made a mistake by not raising because the big blind probably would’ve folded if you did. If the small blind raises all-in you’re going to call anyway, so you were better off raising in the first place.

I think raising the minimum is the better option over raising all-in. If you raise all-in and the small blind folds, the big blind is not going to jeopardize half his stack with a hand that is much worse than yours; however, if you raise the minimum, the big blind might either fold (even though he’s getting 3.5-to-1) or it may induce him to raise all-in with a much worse hand than yours.

So my vote is for raise the minimum and call if you get reraised.

want to win without a showdown. I think min raise is by far the worst option.

For me, I would either fold for raise depending on the blind. The better the play, the more likely I raise.

I agree that it seems like the answer to this quiz is obvious, but I don't think your reasoning for min-raising is correct. As someone else already mentioned, you are letting him see the flop cheaply to see if he hits anything, and if he doesn't, then he just lets go of the hand. You want him to have to decide for half his stack if he thinks his hand will be the best one after the river, not give him a chance to hit a bad/marginal hand that he probably wouldn't have played if you went all-in. If the BB is a semi-reasonable player, he's not going to bluff into you at all because he will know you are pot committed no matter what he holds in his hand. Since I don't think he will bluff into you, the only thing you do by min-raising is give him a chance to see a cheap flop and take you down.

I also voted for moving all-in. It's very likely with only two other opponenets that your hand is best. It's also possible that some calls you with a hand like A5 or something like that, in which you have them dominated. If you get called by KQ or 55 so be it, but if you play to win tournaments like I do, you need to win a coinflip here and there to do so sometimes. The game is too shorthanded and the blinds are too large to attempt to wait for a better spot. More times than not, you will pick up the blinds in this situation, anyway.

I think Daniel just found this scenario recently (from PM) and someone called with a marginal hand. Or he was the BB and called someone's min raise. There is no room here for a tricky play - you just don't have a good enough hand or enough chips. If you are a good player, the min. raise (or call) is something you do with a monster hand to help induce a call or re-raise. I do make the play sometimes of the suspicious min. raise but this is not the place for it.

I'd like to note that yesterday night it was about even between raise all in and min. raise/fold. Either the good players are voting late or people are reading the thread before voting.

am i the only one who might consider raising the minimum?

the reason is that if BOTH players push/call, then you can lean towards thinking that you don't have the best hand. but if only one calls/pushes, you can follow suit.

you might even steal the blinds, with the littlest risk possible.

aseem

At this point you only have 5.5 times the big blind. The blinds are probably going up again in the next 5-10 minutes. If raise 400 then decide to fold the hand your down to 700. I think you have one move and it's all-in.

You can't "limp and pray" and you are too short stacked, so that's out.

The minimum raise is entirely too liable to be an expensive version of the above, and you can't call a raise.

Pushing in here is iffy. You've got a guy who can break you on the BB and you are making what looks to all the world like a steal move, and you just aren't going to be that much a favorite over any likely calling hand, and you are very likely to be a dog. Plus, I've tried almost this exact move a few times in a tournament, and it is disgusting how often you run into another ace.

I think that you can wait long enough without getting crippled to take a better shot.

I am one of the all - in voters. Everyone has said the reasons earlier as to why I would go all-in so I am not gonna repeat it here. I have a feeling Daniel will say something else should have been done. ( people would know why if they had seen my previous poll results )

BigSlick

If you raise the minimum, you've already committed yourself to the pot. You won't' be able to fold.

Raising the minimum is what I picked, because I was the first one to respond and "push all-in" wasn't an option on the poll at that point!

Raise the minimum.

There's a limit hold'em player for ya. :wink:

169 possible hole cards. A7o is ranked 102nd; however, that's based on 10 players. According to the information I have, A7o will win 8.83% of the time. The next highest ranked hand (101st) is A5o, mainly because it can be connected to the straight.

I voted raise the minimum only because going all in seems like a steal attempt. WIth your stack, by raising you pretty much let them know you are willing to put all your chips in, but it looks like you want a call. Maybe more likely to get win the blinds here.

I'm not sure I agree with myself here. I'd probably end up pushing all in actually, but I don't necessarily hate the raising the minimum play.

Well I think I would raise the min, but I am a more conservative player, if either the SB or BB have anything they'll more than likely come over top of you. if the BB has 2200 in chips is he gonna risk half his stack on a bluff(knowing your stack size), i don't think so. the min raise is 400 which is 18% of his stack he would have to commit which is still a big chunk for him. But if has a hand he would probably play back at you because he is out of position(UTG), he would have a solid hand. If he pushed at that point I would fold. but if he called you could go off how he plays from there and what the flop offers you.

but I'm an amatuer only playing for the last few months, thats what I would do.

Plus, you can't win being busted...and A7 offsuit is kindofa a weak hand in my opinion. A wired pair of 2's could kick your ass.

[quote="DanielNegreanu"]Ok, so you are playing a one table quickstart online and have 1100 in chips left with blinds at 100-200. There are five players left and 8000 in play so you are behind obviously.

You are on the button with A-7 offsuit and everyone else folds. The small blind has 650 left and the big blind has 2200.

Your in dealer seat. this means with five people, you could pass up this hand, and see 2 more hands for nothing, and 200 on the 3rd. This would also give you the potential to improve your position because you have that small blind guy who is cring for mercy. If you stay in the hand, you have the potential of passing up one more better seating position. Of course, this hand can be played tons of ways, but sitting this one out would probably be the best.

Folding would definately be a second option for me.

All in. I think the harder question would be what is the worst option, as the other three seem almost equally as bad imo.

I didn't read anyone elses reply yet.

It's not just about the hand, it's about the situation. You probably wont find a better situation if you fold and wait. The BB will not call unless he has a good hand, because if he does and loses the hand, he's crippled. The small blind is coming along no matter what, therefore has any random hand.
A7o is a 60% favorite to any random hand.

If I had 99 and somehow knew my opponent had AK, I would push all my chips in this situation. Here, you are even more of a favorite to win the hand. And, god forbid, you lose, you still have a .0001% of coming back...better than 0%, right?

I thought about folding, too. The BB is getting 2-1 on his money, and may make a call if he feels like gambling. But A7o is a 40% favorite against two random hands. so, almost half of the time you will win 3,000. You're not a favorite if both call, but it's a risk i'm willing to take in this situation.

What if the BB wakes up with a decent hand? Let's say any broadway or any pair. In this case, it is correct for him to call getting 2-1 on his money. But, A7o is still winning 30% of the time...2-1. If he calls, you're getting 3-1 on a 2-1 shot. I take it every time with 5xBB. You got no time to wait, and this situation is one of the best you're getting in the next 3-4 hands.

Anyone disagree?

Minimum raise!?

You are letting the BB get a cheap chance to bust you. I say boo on the mini raise, you're getting you money in the pot no matter what, you might as well make the BB sweat a call. That gives you a certain % extra for taking down the pot. Minimum raising does not.

All in/fold/miniraise-in that order.

This looks like a variation of quiz 1. Raise minimum gives us two chances to steal the pot. If either blind plays and checks the flop, bet about half the remaining stack. Bet all in if the flop is good. Poker players are a suspicious group. When you bet all in, they think you're bluffing.

Would only consider folding if there were two super short stacks. By super short, both would need to be less than 400 in chips.

Is this a joke?

Forgive me if it's not. I'm really wondering.

Alright, 16 combinations of AK-A8, so that's 96 combinations of better aces. Add in the 13 separate pocket pairs at 12 combos apiece, and that's 156 combinations.

252 combos that are ahead of you. 60 of which are coinflips. Every other possible combination of cards

Each opponent has a 252/1404 chance of holding a hand that is ahead preflop. 17.9%

A 192/1404 chance of holding a hand that is a 2-1 favorite over you. 13.6%.

Compound that by 2 opponents:
67% chance your hand is a 2-1 or greater favorite over each of the hands remaining.
74% chance you're not dominated by either hand behind you.

You're in 4th in chips in a tournament that pays 3, and doesn't really pay #3 all that well. If A7o isn't good enough with 5.5x BB, something's wrong with you, and with the relative stacks, it's all-in time.

You da man.

64% of this crew voted all in. When has this group ever gotten a quiz question right? All in must be wrong.

i would politely ask the dealer for another ace to replace my 7, then push my stack in with authority and a thump.