It has to be Tupac, but I've had friends really argue Biggie. To me Tupac is the MJ of rap. And also to me he is one of the best musical artists ever. Thoughts????

Vanilla Ice... Next Question

everybody thinks Tupac was so great because he was like a martyr for rap. Personally, I don't like his stuff that much. Biggie was much better.

as mainstream as it is, what eminem has done for rapping and hip hop is astronomical compared to what others have done. any takers?

Eminem is far and away my favorite rapper. 2nd is...um...see, I couldn't really say. My favorite rap song growing up was Can't Truss It, but I didn't care much for anything else they did. There are a lot of rap artists that have one or two songs that I like, but I like almost all of Eminem's songs.

I think Jay-Z pwns Biggie and Pac. Both those guys get waaaaaay too much credit for martyrdom.

Q-Tip is my favorite MC of all time.

The Beastie Boys!









and Chuck D

definately agree on Jay-Z. Whenever I say I like him, though, people always make fun of me.

or maybe its just because of the way I look.

Oh yeah, and Morris Major and the Minors.


"He was gonna throw a bottle, he was gonna chuck a...chuck a...chucka can."

Lyrically, Biggie pwns everyone. Period. His flow will never be duplicated.

How about the above in the same song?? Oh wait, they did and it's the best song ever!


Also, I think 2Pac > Biggie

Dre and Snoop. Quit wasting our time. Responsible for rap today, love it or hate it. Next.

You are out of your damn mind.

MF DOOM

hands down!!!!!!


lock it up!

I vote for the midget in Ghetto Boys

If you truly know music and hip hop Pac is unmatched. Songs like Brenda's Got a Baby, Soujua Story, Part Time Mother, Str8 Balling, not to mention other countless ones. Saying Biggies or JayZ is better then Pac is like saying Mcjeager and Steven Tyler are better then JOhn Lennon, or that Dean Martin and Sammy Davis Jr. are better then Sinatra!!

Seriously, Pac was not that good. For every Pac classic you can name, I can name a Biggie classic that pwns it.

your favorite rappers favorite rapper Kool G Rap

I'm not a biggie fan. I'm not really a tupac fan, but I recognize what he's done for rap. They were all great rappers, no doubt.

There are so many great rappers out there that you can't name "the best."

But, if you want to argue who's done the most for rap (which is completely different), the answer is far and away Eminem. He brought the white kids into rap in bunches, which brought a lot of money into it.

Chuck D. Strong lyrics and an unmistakable, powerful voice

Lyrically speaking, nobody even comes close to Eminem. It's him and everybody else. As far as the greatest of all time, it's close between Biggie and Dre.

People who argue on behalf of Pac and Biggie being the 'best' generally aren't real hip hop fans, imo. I'm not talking about Mtv. I can name a zillion MCs who have better deliveries and a zillion who write much, much, much, much better lyrics.

I'm not big on Eminem's syncopation.

you forgot the (sw)

Fat Lip

name some, I need some new tunes.

Fred Durst?

I'm not arguing that with you. Notice the bolded part of my post. I defy you to come up with a modern lyricist better than Em.

To which part of my post are you referring?

Depends....Em is good with the Pop Culture references but I like Chuck D. for the political.

References aside, nobody puts words together like Eminem. Here's a sample.

If ya patiently waitin to make it through all the hatin
Debatin whether or not you can even weather the storm
Unless you lay on the table they operatin to save you
It's like an angel came to you sent from the heavens above

They think they crazy but they ain't crazy, let's face it
Shit basically they just playin sick
They ain't shit, they ain't sayin shit, spray em' fifty
A to the K get in the way I'll bring Dre and them wit me
And turn this day into fuckin mayhem, you stayin wit me?
Don't let me lose you, I'm not tryna confuse you
When I let loose wit this uzi and just shoot through your Isuzu
You get the messege? Am I gettin through to you?
You know what's comin, you motherfuckers don't even know, do you?
Take some Big and some Pac and you mix em' up in a pot
Sprinkle a little Big L on top, what the fuck do you got?
You got the realest and illest killas tied up in a knot
The juggernauts of this rap shit, like it or not
It's like a fight to the top just to see who'd die for the spot
You put ya life in this, nothin like survivin a shot
Y'all know what time it is, soon as fifty signs on this dot
Shit what you know about death threats, cause I get a lot
Shady Records was eighty seconds away from the towers
Them cowards fucked wit the wrong building, they meant to hit ours
Better evacuate all children, its nuclear showers
There's nothin spookier
Ya now about to witness the power.

i wouldnt expect nothing less from a poker forum but you guys know nothing about hip hop.


go here if you want to get learned: http://mfdoom.headringer.net/

they have some G.O.A.T. debates


I also vote Common as one of the best emcees ever

The whole thing, but particularly the part about Eminem.

Dylon....



he spits hot fire

Elaborate please.

I thought this topic was done after my post....idiots

What a surprise!

I'm starting to think that this is all personal opinion and that you all saying each other is wrong is also an opinion. Wow....I think I'm on to something here.

Well, that's you're opinion I guess...

Party Pooper.

Anybody in here ever read Ralph Wiley? http://espn.go.com/page2/s/wiley/021111.html

Some excerpts:

"Or it can be a solo audience of Dr. Dre, who gets demos from all over, with vocal "contenders" literally begging for the famous producer's dispensation of their happiness. Dre understands that rhythm, "beats," are the bottom line of all this social madness -- he picks Marshall Bruce Mathers, aka Eminem, to be his signature artist, his champion, in the wide wake of Tupac Shakur (I'm no real deep expert on hip-hop, but I kind of understand social madness and like music, and am nearly certain I understand lyrics.

Example: There's no comparing Biggie to Tupac, not without intimidation from the Biggie crowd -- all of P.Diddy's underlying tracks are just bites, Herb Albert's "Rise," or Diana Ross' "I'm Coming Out," Biggie's house-music, buttery-Jamaican voice overlaid; Tupac, on the other hand, along with Dr. Dre, formed original beats and tracks, and lyrically, he described an entire universe, not just one inhabited by Cristal, crack and 'hos. Ever heard, "I Ain't Mad At You"? You should. And who hasn't bounced along to the less reflective but joyful "California Love"?)"

"The commodification of hip-hop (or any potentially artistic form, like hoop, say, or film itself) is not new, nor limited to Eminem, or other white performers. Ja Rule, for example, came in the void left by Tupac's death. Anyone who has heard both knows Rule was inspired by Tupac, got in with Jay-Z because of a rasping vocal similarity to Tupac -- even though he does not have the facility or the lyrical ability of Tupac. In that sense, Ja Rule is McDonald's -- he is and will be commercially successful, a lot of people will eat up his stuff, but it is not as nourishing as a home-cooked meal by any stretch; it is pop art, and not the same kind of authentic folk art as, say, a tureen of homemade New Orleans gumbo."

"But the great skill, personified by Eminem in the final frames, closes the show, literally and figuratively. The example of his rapping skill in the movie is tight enough. But check out this lyric from "Cleaning Out My Closet," off "The Eminem Show" CD, which could be seen as a partial anthem for "8 Mile:"

... now I would never diss my own mama just to get recognition take a second to listen fool you think this record is dissing but put yourself in my position just try to envision witnessing your mama popping prescription pills in the kitchen bitching that someone's always going through her purse and s***'s missing going through public housing systems victim of Munchausen's syndrome my whole life I was made to believe I was sick when I wasn't till I grew up now I blew up it makes you sick to your stomach doesn't it wasn't it the reason you made that CD for me, Ma, so you could try to justify the way you treated me, Ma, but guess what you're getting older now and it's cold when you're lonely and Nathan's growing up so quick he's gonna know that you're phony and Hayley's getting so big now you should see her she's beautiful but you'll never see her she won't even be at your funeral! See what hurts me the most you won't admit you was wrong bitch do your song keep telling yourself that you was a mom but how dare you try to take what you didn't help me to get you selfish bitch I hope you f****** burn in hell for this s***! Remember when Ronnie died and you said you wished it was me well guess what I am dead, dead to you as can be ... I'm sorry Mama ... I never meant to hurt you ... I never meant to make you cry but tonight I'm cleaning out my closet ..."

Eminem runs it all down in under 75 seconds, in such a facile way that, in spite of the fingernails-on-blackboard harshness of what he says, I defy you not to yo-yo your head along with him."

Gladly.

Look up the artists on the following labels:

Definitive Jux
Ninja Tune
Mo' Wax
Anticon

Specific MCs that are incalcuably superior to Eminem as lyricists:

Vast Aire
Vordul Megilah
El-P
Mr. Lif
Gift of Gab
Q-Tip
Common
Doseone
MF Doom
Aesop Rock
Mos Def
Talib Kweli


and on...and on...and on...

thank you mk, now we're getting somewhere

You are wrong!

I win!

2Pac, Snoop, and Dre. there is nothing like Death Row after 2Pac joined. that era of rap was awesome, and cannot be repliated. eminem is awesome as well. the best concert i have ever seen was the Up in Smoke Tour, with Dre, Snoop, Eminem, Ice Cube, Tha Dogg Pound, Warren G, Nate Dogg, etc etc etc. That pwns anything.period.end.of.story.

I have some research to do. Thanks.

anyone listen to Heiroglyphics?

mk, turn off your local college radio station, please.

custom, your declaration that eminem brought white kids into hip-hop is laughable at best. white kids have been buying more hip-hop than anyone since.....forever.

the problem with 'underground' hip-hop music today is that its ****ing boring and repetetive (ironically what you guys will say about any rap on mtv/bet or the radio)

Vast Aire Vordul Megilah - first can ox album was ok, fairly average rappers that are looked upon as great simply because they say different shit than others
Mr. Lif - terrible voice, average rapper
Gift of Gab - havent listened to blackalicious in a while, their earlier stuff i liked but havent heard anything in a while
Q-Tip - while charismatic and entertaining, neither MC in tribe was breaking any barriers lyrically
Common - first 3 albums good, post erykah badu pussy not that interesting
Doseone - lol dont know what to say about that one, he's aight, has he changed his voice since i stopped listening to him?
MF Doom - pretty dope, somewhat lazy and puts out 4000 songs a year (dangerdoom is "OK", not the greatest album ever as praised by most emo-rock+mfdoom fans i talk to)
Aesop Rock - first album, EP, then second LP are dope, his new shit is UNLISTENABLE to me
Mos Def - dope, first album is awesome, experimentalness gone wrong on his second one
Talib Kweli - nothing spectacular, good real dope on blackstar with mos def




i dont like much new music PERIOD. but heres some older stuff i like


anyone int he DITC crew (showbiz and AG, big l,diamond d, lord finesse etc)
first 3 tribe albums
anything Kool G Rap
anything Wu-tang
pete rock and cl smooth
basically any mid 90's classic (nas and biggys first albums etc)

(anyone wanna buy MF Doom - Operation Doomsday original not repress LP? )