Here is a hand that I had on bodog 5-10 nl, 8 players, just got to the table so no reads.

Stack Sizes:both around $1000

Im in mp3 and delt k q

UTG folds, mp1 calls, mp2 folds, I call, 1 fold, and Button raises to 4x to 40.

folds to me and I call and see a flop.

Pot is $105. flop comes: A ,j 3 .

I check, Button throws a small bet of $40, I call with my gutshot.

Pot is now $185. turn is k . I check, and button checks.

River is 10 . I made my straight so i bet out $150, now my opponent takes a long time and raises $250. Do you fold?

To answer the question...

The advantage to playing it passively on preflop, flop, and turn is that the pot is smaller by the river. A smaller pot means you can get away from it easier.

The problem is I really hate playing passively, because you have no information when it sets up these situations.

I'd fold for the river bet.

I think not raising preflop is significantly bad. Button can be raising with anything or nothing preflop because you limped and nobody else raised.

Ugh..I hate hands like this. No reads, he checked behind on the turn, which is kinda, odd. 250 to win 505. Bah. I probably call and vomit a bit when he shows us the flush.

I dunno..we've invested, what? 200? Ugh..I probably call with no read. The awkward part for me, is that, even if I just have the naked queen, I'm raising this river a good part of the time if I'm the villain.

But, I dunno, the raise is pretty much representing the flush. If he's checking behind on the turn with the flush, then, I guess I pay him off.

We're getting better than 2:1 on our money..meh..I'll think about it some more, but I probably pay it off.

the reason that I played it so passively preflop is that I was trying to change up my play. I usually raise this hand preflop but I decided to try to mix things up a bit. I definately have to just call the raise but I like to watch out when I call with this hand because I can get trapped a lot with it.

Yeah, I think that you have to pay it off at this point. It's too likely that he's making this raise with the straight or even on a total bluff. You'll probably run into the flush often enough to make calling feel like a losing play, but I think that with pot odds, it's slightly +EV.

I really dislike the way you played it on the other streets though. If you want to do something with your gutshot, then either bet or check-raise to give yourself a chance to win the pot. Calling a bet with three clean outs is definitely a bad idea. You'd have to get paid off $600 on average when you hit to make it worthwhile.

Also, when you have an obvious hand that's not the nuts (like a straight with four cards to it plus a flush draw on the board), then don't bet close to the size of the pot like that. You'll almost never get called when you're ahead, and if you're behind, you can lose a bundle. Just go ahead and bet something like $75 that looks like you have something decent but you're still scared of the straight.

Back to the final river decision, I'm not so sure it's a call the more I think about it. Give him a 30% chance of the straight, 10% for a pure bluff, 5% for some oddball holding like a set, (I've seen it happen at 5/10 NL), and 55% for the flush. That makes your pot equity 15% to win, and 30% to split or 30% overall. You're calling $250 into a $985 pot.

OK, you've got 30% equity, and you only need 25% equity to call, so I guess that given that hand distribution, a call is the right move. Change the 5% oddball holding to more flush possibilities though, against a strong tight player, and your pot equity's down to 25% and it's a fold. Obviously, it's a really close decision, but even though you'll probably regret it (i.e., you'll lose more than 50% of the time), I think the right decision is to call here.

Again, the real problem here is the previous streets, as we have a lot of money invested with no information.

Respectfully....

This is beyond the scope of "mixing things up" and firmly entrenched in the realm of "weak/tight, passive, and bad."

I haven't played much 5/10, but even alleged TAG's afflicted with selective weak/tightness get destroyed, precisely because of pots like these.

Right.

I've gotten crushed making plays like these. It's not until 5-6 months ago that I got out of that mindset--it still shows up from time to time.

Honestly..I find two real problems in this hand.

1. Not betting preflop. Don't limp. Just don't. Yes, raising makes for a larger pot/tougher decisions, but the decisions are actually easier in that you've gained some information by betting and you didn't let someone get in there cheap with 87 .

2. Betting the river. Honestly, three to the flush, I'm likely check/calling. It's likely that you were drawing dead--and got there. By that I mean, his check/behind was to let you catch two pair/straight/trips while he held the flush. It's also just as likely you're good. I don't think you lose enough equity here to justify betting out. I think if you check this river you can call, and lose the minimum.

If he has two pair or something similar, and is trying to make a move, you can still call and you still pick up a nice pot without having to break out the Pepto Bismol. He played his hand like a flush draw that got there and I think betting the river is awful.

You're going to split this pot, a good percentage of the time as well, which, makes check/calling EV neutral, IMO. I think betting out on the river after he's played his hand the way he has, is a -EV situation. He showed "weakness" on the turn to lure you into this river bet. But..then again.

I think we should probably fold. We have no read, and it's my usual practice, to give them the benfit of the doubt until I have a reason not to.

Thing is you say you just sat down at the table; so what exactly are you trying to "mix up' ? You have no reads on them, they have no reads on you. If you were at the table for a while against the same players I could/would agree with mixing up your play, but all you are doing is mixing yourself up, not the players at the table.

I think that makes sense.

Personally though Im probably folding this preflop or at least folding to the 4x bb raise here. (Sure he could be making a move here but KQsuited is really a vunerable hand to a raise.

After that though, come river time I make the crying call and hope he has something like ak/aj/a10.