Wow. I still lost $627 Friday night at 3 2/4 tables. Amazing. I ended up quitting at the low point of the night. I wouldn't have thought it was possible without being drunk or extreme tilt. I know I got on tilt after getting down $300 and played too many starting hands. I was at around 27% & 32% VP$IP which is a good 10 to 14% above where I want it. I know it wasn't all bad luck and tilt of course. I got outplayed in 2 pots that went to showdown where I had laid down winning hand. That always helps the tilt factor kick into overdrive. Who knows how many other hands I got outplayed in that didn't go to showdown.

I guess I'm only proud of the fact that I didn't move up in limits to try and change things. That is so freaking common and usually only speeds up the disaster. I still have plenty of money and time to get better and plug my massive leaks.

Things changed:

1. I will never again play after losing more than $350. This will of course go up when I move up to 3/6 but I don't see myself making that move for a long, long time lol. A person's mindset just changes after getting down almost 100 BBs in a full ring game. You just expect to get sucked out on on every flop you take.

2. I will not play past 4 hours when playing ring games. Lots of people play longer hours and do it well but I made more than 1 accidental cold call preflop on the blinds just because of lack of focus after playing so many hours. Cost me money every time. I'm just not used to playing online for that long.

3. I think I'm gonna change my user name on PP which will allow me to start from scratch on my pokertracker stats and try to keep them near optimal. After 20k hands and the last session it was gonna be a long road back to get my VP$IP down to where it should be. I'll still use the same database though which will allow me to have a read on a few players when I sit down to play.

4. Instead of sitting with $100 at 2/4 I think I'm gonna try $200 at each table and see. It might make a tiny difference in table image.

I'm actually excited about trying this out sometime soon. I am very motivated to change up my game now lol. Having a conservative bankroll at 2/4 allows me to have a disasterous night and be able to bounce right back. I don't even have to reload at Party. My account there went from 1400 to 800. Ugh. That kind of hurts to type.

I'll probably play in a MTT or 180 person SNG on stars tomorrow. No cash ring games for me for awhile.

I'll probably get back to ring Thursday night or so. No need to rush back.

best of luck to you. stick with the guidelines you've established.

i think losing a lot of money can be the greatest inspiration for improving your game

so true. When you are winning, but playing like complete shit, no one can talk you out of your ways. Just like that dude who posted about playing 10/20 cuz he got sucked out too many times in low limit.

winning more money is my inspiration. maybe you're right, but no one on a huge downswing wants to hear that immediately.

this type of thinking is a major leak. you should not be trying to make "big laydowns" in these games.

i guarantee you're being bluffed out of a lot of pots.

He didnt say anything about making 'big laydowns' in that quote.

You're going to fold a winning hand once in a while obviously.

If you dont ever fold a winner, you're probably calling way too often.

1. I will never again play after losing more than $350. This will of course go up when I move up to 3/6 but I don't see myself making that move for a long, long time lol. A person's mindset just changes after getting down almost 100 BBs in a full ring game. You just expect to get sucked out on on every flop you take.


Hi.

While I've had days where I dropped 100BB playing well, I haven't had many.

If you're going set a stop loss, set it well before 100BB. 40BB maybe.

good luck.

You're right. I hadn't ever been down more than $350 before Friday playing 2/4 and I've been playing consistently since April (50k hands or so) and online since '03.

I guess I was thinking about the 2 or 3 sessions that I had gone down $200 after an hour or two and then fought back and had a winning session after an hour or two more.

I know it stems from playing too many hands. I suspect 30% VP$IP in full ring is just a huge downswing waiting to happen.

i've actually found it helpful to set a low stop-loss number, then increase it as i get better. initially, it was at 30bb. so i had a -30bb downswing, sat out for a few minutes, then sat back in, concentrating hard on playing normally. i was able to play my usual game, so from then on, 30bb was no big deal, and i could stand to lose more in a session.
i did that for awhile, usually adding 10bb. sometimes i didn't feel well enough to go back, so i stayed at that limit for awhile. i couldnt lose more than 70bb for a couple months.

now i don't have a limit, and easily have been able to play through 100+ bb downswings.

ok just got interrupted for an hour, so i'll stop here. sorry if i said something stupid or interrupted.

I had a bad night myself earlier this week. Lost about $350 at 2/4 and 3/6. I'm well over-rolled for 2/4, so it's not a huge bankroll issue, but it ended up being over 75 BB and it was tough to stomach. I actually don't think I tilted much, but I know my mindset changed and I kept expecting to get beat.

I think all of your ideas are good ones, though I think your stop loss should be a little lower. I've decided to set myself a stop loss of 50 BB for multi-tabling. I know Howard Lederer uses 30 BB and I think that's good for one or two tables, but variance could theoretically be bigger for several tables, so I figure 50 BB is a good round number for multi-tabling. So, like Smash said, I think your stop-loss number should probably be lower than 75BB.

Just my two cents, I'm sure you'll be able to bounce back.

I had roughly an 80BB downswing last week, spanning the course of two days and 2.5k hands.

Meh.

It doesnt hurt that i too am ridiculously overbankrolled for 2/4.

I know all about downswings, shoot I go on them way too often. I play more shorthanded Hold'em than most people here, so that may be the reason why. It's not uncommon to drop 50 big bets playing HU on 1 table in a short period of time and when you play on 4 at a time, I guess it shouldn't be too uncommon to drop 150 big bets in a short period of time, which is what I've done and have done several times.

After a while, the losses don't bother you much, because you get used to it. If I drop 100 big bets nowadays, I just shrug it off like it's nothing to be honest. I still don't know if losing what I lose somedays is the norm for the style I play and the games I play, but I seem to still end up in the positive in the long run, which is of course what matters.

What I do find strange is that I still am a successful player and I'd think most on here are successful as well, but I tend to lose way more big bets for a session and go on much bigger downswings than probably any player on here.

As far advice goes to the OP, I'm not sure I can give you a solution, but you should know yourself whether you can beat the game or not. The important thing is to be honest with yourself and to quit when your not at your best. I will say that if you can take big losses, it'll prepare you better for stepping up to the higher limits, your tolerance for losing huge amounts of money will just get higher and higher, which is actually a good thing.

hmm, so everyone in the limit strat section is an econ major who is overrolled for 2/4.
coincidence?

Umm....I'm not an Econ major, but I am overrolled for 2/4. Coincidence?

over-rollage feels good. confidence is alwys good.

you should enroll in economics. all the cool strat guys are doing it.
plus me and screech.

me too! commerce actually, lots of economic courses though

which school are you at?

I'm an econ major, who plays 2/4... but I'm barely rolled for it... 8)

that is kind of creepy. are there really that many of you?
i don´t even know one person who´s studying economics in "real life".

sidenote: no wonder that there´s probably no other poker forum where bankroll managment is discussed as much as on fcp

University of Toronto
and you?

i go to Guelph, but I'm from Toronto.

you didn't say Ryerson, so you should spend more time in strat

economix is teh suxors!

you wouldn't happen to know of Phil Oreopolous? he's a good young labor economist on the faculty there.

You should come by waterloo for the games we have going.

Worst players ever.

Tonight i saw:

- Calls for a 20X the bb reraise with A4off.

- Some guy moves in with deuces against the lag-tard-calling station who made a substantial raise. Gets called by J9off for 30X the bb on top of the initial raise.

- Ridiculous all ins on the turn with a gutshot and a paired board with 3 to a flush against a guy who was all in, minus a buck or two. Just wow.

- Oh yeah, and some competent players drop in to dump money. 6X the bb under the gun in the dark. Calls all in for $30 in the dark. Hooray.



Funny side note - my room mate who plays poker is in economics at laurier.

My two best friends back home who play poker are both in economics (well, one has it as a minor technically).

I'm sensing a theme here...

Economics... Poker... Canadian Universities...

I fit into all of this... I'm at Lakehead (although it blows, and I'm going somewhere much better in 2007 for my Masters).

Cool.

Zach