Incidentally, I was the button on this hand.

Preflop:

The 3xBB raise preflop is good. It's a nice standard play, and you don't want to shut everyone out yet. Four callers isn't the best result, but I think bumping it up more is an overbet, and it probably gives away too much information.

no, no, no. seeing a flop w/ 4 opponents when you hold aces is HORRIBLE. what if the flop came j-q-k or 6-7-8?

Flop:

Great flop for pocket aces, nice and non-threatening. I like the check to start out, especially since at least one of the two late-position players will probably take a stab at it. Sure enough, I obliged the hero. Personally, I like the smooth call here, since it is fairly unlikely that there will be a turn card that really scares the hero off the hand, and he is likely to get the button to bluff off some more money. The second smooth-call from the cutoff would be a cause for concern, though. Most likely, the cutoff is playing a 10, though.

if we're checking here, it's to c/r. not to c/c. by not betting or raising, we have no idea where we're at. and as you say, there arent many turn cards that will scare bb. so if co of button did have a pair on the flop and turns 2 pair, well then, bb is getting felted bc he wont be able to get away from aces since now it's too expensive on the turn

Turn:

This is still a good card. While it could have made someone's gutshot, it is unlikely that anyone was still playing 89. The check here is good, because it gives one of the two players behind an opportunity to throw in some more money. A bet from the CO would be a cause for concern, because it would not be clear if the CO was trying to collect on the delayed bluff or if he hit a second pair. Luckily, he checks as well, using the same plan as you. Once again the button obliges you and bet. Here, I think the hero should have considered a reraise to collect the pot now, but I don't HATE calling here, since the CO is so likely to call. The problem with the smooth-call here is that the button (me) is unlikely to fire again at the river after being smooth-called in two places twice without significantly improving. Also, a raise from the CO is very scary here, and will put you in a difficult position.

Personally, for my part on the button, I think that the bet on the turn was on the iffy side. Like a lot a of mistakes, it does well to disguise my hand, but that's about the best news. Had I checked, and woke up on the river, I probably wouldn't have blundered into the enormous pot.

jesus, bb calling here is just horrible. it handcuffs him fo rthe river. there is no safe card anymore, and forces bb to c/c or possibly b/f the river. if we still feel we're ahead, we raise the pot now, getting greedy is bad

River:

This is a both a good and bad card. If someone had been playing 10-6 or 1o-2 and was slowplaying the two pair, they just got counterfeited. On the other hand, if anyone had a 7 (which I did), you are going to be very unhappy. I might have led out at this river, because that would be likely to freeze anyone with a 7. The check is not a bad move, though. The check from the CO is probably reassuring, but he is a dangerous variable here. The bet on the river is somewhat worrying, though. What surprised me about this hand is that the more I thought about it, the more I think that the only move for the aces is calling. I think that any raise that is enough to get you a real answer will pot-commit you the rest of the way, and I don't think you can lay the aces down at this price.

Pushing all-in is a terrible play here. This doesn't acheive anything that a smaller raise can't, and honestly, given your reads, the ONLY hands that can call here crush you.

Key players - 1-2NL $100 buy-in, 7-handed

You (BB) $160. Image: Tight, aggressive, runs the occaisional bluff.

UTG $220. Image: Tight, passive. Overvalues pp.
CO: $90. Image: Loose, aggressive, very creative.
B: $330. Image: Very loose, agressive, maniacal with the button. Smart, bluffs often.

Play

UTG limps, CO limps, B limps, SB limps, You raise to $6 (3xBB) with A:club: A:diamond:. UTG, CO, B call, SB folds.

Pot - $26.

Flop: 10 6:diamond: 2:club:

You check, UTG checks, CO checks, B bets $10 (his standard play when checked to on the button).

Question 1: What is your move here?

You call, UTG folds, CO calls.

Turn: 7:spade:

Question 2: Do you lead out here?

You check again, CO checks, B bets $20.

Question 3: Do you raise here?

You call, CO calls.

River: 7:diamond:

You check, CO checks, B bets $40.

Question 4: What is your move?

To clarify: I posted this from the perspective of the AA player because his position was the most interesting, to me. I was playing the Q7 on the button, and my play was pretty straightforward (bet out with position early, bet for value on the end), except for the bet on the turn, that, in retrospect, was a mistake that got rescued by a helpful river. The cutoff later said he had ATo, and had initially figured the BB for some sort of delayed bluff over mine, and smartly got out of the way when things got hot. I suppose he had some options, but I don't think his position was all that interesting.

I don't mind taking the AA into a multiway pot with a lot of callers, to a raise, because you still have the best hand, you are just less likely to win the pot, but you are being compensated by the pot being much bigger to start, which gives you better odds at getting called for a huge pot. Regardless, the BB's line here was that he was playing to win a big pot, which I like. I also like that he was going to let me bluff at the pot to try and trap me as I ramped my bluff up. In my mind he made a nice, sophisicated play to start out, and then undid his work on the turn and river.

To answer some criticisms, I certainly understand why you would want to play AA against a smaller field to give you better odds on winning the pot, but I personally prefer trying to win more money. I think it is purely a matter of personal preference, and I don't think one is a whole lot more "right" than the other.
The reason I consider the hand instructive is because of how quickly his play deteriorated after the flop. He did not stick to his "game plan" for the hand, which had the potential work very well for him. I think the smartest move (given what he knows) was a checkraise on the turn, since it is unlikely that I will take another stab at it on the river after getting smoothcalled so much on a draw-unfriendly board. Most likely he gets called by the cutoff and I bail on the hand, only to curse my luck with the 7 hits the river.

His all-in on the river is, obviously, horrible.

Key players - 1-2NL $100 buy-in, 7-handed

You (BB) $160. Image: Tight, aggressive, runs the occaisional bluff.
UTG $220. Image: Tight, passive. Overvalues pp.
CO: $90. Image: Loose, aggressive, very creative.
B: $330. Image: Very loose, agressive, maniacal with the button. Smart, bluffs often.

Play

UTG limps, CO limps, B limps, SB limps, You raise to $6 (3xBB) with A:club: A:diamond:. UTG, CO, B call, SB folds.

Pot - $26.

Flop: 10 6:diamond: 2:club:

You check, UTG checks, CO checks, B bets $10 (his standard play when checked to on the button).

Question 1: What is your move here?

You call, UTG folds, CO calls.

Turn: 7:spade:

Question 2: Do you lead out here?

You check again, CO checks, B bets $20.

Question 3: Do you raise here?
You call, CO calls.

River: 7:diamond:

You check, CO checks, B bets $40.

Question 4: What is your move?

Very long post and admittadly don't read entire thing. Rule of AA, you're either going to win a small pot or lose a big pot. Taking AA mutiway will not allow you to win a big pot. in order to win a Big pot with AA, you need to catch one player holding TPTK. You can't take this multiway because the you are beat enough here. The idea that you want to win a big pot because you have AA in a multiway pot complete disregards the aspect of post flop play IMO.

In my mind he made a nice, sophisicated play to start out, and then undid his work on the turn and river....


The reason I consider the hand instructive is because of how quickly his play deteriorated after the flop. He did not stick to his "game plan" for the hand, which had the potential work very well for him.

I agree with everybody that posted on their perspective for the player with AA. He butchered this hand. A bigger pre-flop raise is required. Acey, you agree with the 3XBB play and it is a misplay. You MUST adjust your pre-flop raise according to the number of limpers. You don't want a multi-way pot with any hand unless you are playing suited connectors. Raising to 3x BB in this spot is just pot building nothing more. A stronger raise is required.

If I was playing AA here you wouldn't have won the hand, or if you did you would have made some incorrect calls given the odds offered to you and I would have referred to you as the ultimate donk. LOL

Q7 off? LAG indeed. At least it was the button, and if the table is that passive my hand selection would get much more liberal too.

Well said.
What the hell was his game plan though, besides the vague one of building a pot for his aces?

Was he planning to pop the turn one way or another (which, as pointed out, would yield max profit), and then just a.) got greedy, or b.) lost the nerve?

Was his plan to wait for the river all along?
Did he think that someone got counterfeited by that second 7, making his all-in safe?
Did he all-in out of desperation?
Did he even have a read?
Wtf??

Win $76 pot

This is a much better win than the $8

You are TOTALLY MISSING THE POINT here. When you play, how often does a single pair win on a PAIRED BOARD w/ a POSSIBLE STRAIGHT??? By playing the hand passively (and greedily) you allowed yourself to lose a big pot.

By the way, you're being totally results-oriented, which is a HUGE mistake. If you make the best decisions every hand the results will take care of themselves, and you won't have to worry about trying to make $76 off your aces.

Side note: I was not the aces player here. He just had the most interesting perspective.

Side note: I was not the aces player here. He just had the most interesting perspective.

No, I'm not missing the point. I am just willing accept the higher-variance play here, because the situation lended itself to it very well. I think that he could have played this hand and predicted how the betting would go. Had the flop been more dangerous, I would be very willing to agree with you here on his play. However, at this table, he could assume very safely that he was well ahead here. Of course, by the river, the board was terrible, but he got a very favorable flop, and, given the ensuing
action, a pretty good turn.

And I am not being results-oriented. I think that BB knew damned well that I would take a stab at any flop that was checked to me, especially a junky one like this. I also think that the flop was sufficiently non-threatening to allow another card here after it was bet, since the only possible straight drwas are gutshots and there is no flush draw out. I do think he needed to "wake up" on the 7 on the turn for a host of knowable reasons. He honestly set a very nice trap for me that the river bailed me out of, and that he should have known that the river was a terrible card for him.

And to a larger point, when you have aces, you KNOW you have the best hand, and I think you are silly not to be trying to extract the most value out of it. And given that he had two LAGy players in late positions that like to attack this passive table, he had a better play option than "isolate and crush." Granted, he took more risk, and compounded the risk with some bad decision making later on, but I think, based on all the knowledge he had access to, he started well and finished poorly. Of course, there are a lot of bad flops for aces (flops that pair kings, for instance), but there are many more GOOD flops for aces. I would therefore argue that the less-threatening the flop, the more you should let people play with you.

My argument has always been that he picked a creative line, and that he could have reasonably concluded that a checkraise on the turn was his best move. Now, given the results, he had the potential for an enormous pot, given what the cutoff held. THAT is being results oriented. I am much more interested in the process, here.