This is a hand that has haunted me for quite sometime. 15/30 isnt my normal game, but earlier in my "career", I took shots at bigger games.

AK utg. The table is tight.

I raise, folds to CO, who 3 bets, and I flat call here.

flop K85

I bet he calls. Should this worry me?

Turn 8, I bet he raises.

Your line?

I c/c river.

I usually c/r the flop here, I think we gain the more info/value that way.

The way you played it Im definately calling down and 3betting against some opponents.

I think there's a good chance you're up against another AK, from the way it played out.

Capping preflop isn't bad... but I'd definitely 3-bet the turn. I don't put him on 88 for the no-flop-raise, so I think we're only losing to AA or KK here. A lot of people will call the flop and raise the turn to indicate strength, and we have a good board for TPTK.

Cap pf. 3 bet turn.

Well, I was up against AA. This told me the skill level in a game like that, and I was clearly out matched here. Just the way he played it, compared to low limit, where he 99% of the time, raises my flop bet, confused the hell out of me.

Thanks for the input.

You do realize that unless you played this unbelievably passively him raising your flop bet would have most likely amounted in you losing the same amount if not more?

Well, I was up against AA. This told me the skill level in a game like that, and I was clearly out matched here.

Yeah 15/30 players are great at having AA against AK. Lower limit players just ca't manage that level of skill?

WTF are you talking about?

He waited untill the board paired on the turn to raise his vulnerable overpair.

Wow.

Genius.

good luck.

another calm, rational, polite, friendly, and warm response by your top 5 best player on the site.

Thanks again for the insight, and as always, presented in such a helpful and non condensending way.

No wonder more people go to 2+2 to talk strategy. I can see Raymer talking this way, or Miller, or Slansky...

The way he played it is not very advanced at all, he's probably going to get the min out of you if you call and then check call there. Plus, he just got way behind an 8 and he's going to pay it off regardless. Bad spot, thats how it goes.

another calm, rational, polite, friendly, and warm response by your top 5 best player on the site.

Thanks again for the insight, and as always, presented in such a helpful and non condensending way.

No wonder more people go to 2+2 to talk strategy. I can see Raymer talking this way, or Miller, or Slansky...


You apparently don't read 2+2 very much, eh donkey?

good luck.

I used to cap there preflop. Now i'd sometimes call the 3bet. I dont think it's a big difference either way. If he has a mid pair, you may get folds without improving if a few overs hit. But he will generally have something that he wants to show down, and you probably dont have value against his range.


If you call the 3bet though, i'd rather check/raise the flop. Not for defining your hand. It's because he'll bet the flop with anything, period - and you beat most hands in his range.

If you take the gaybet route and he calls the flop, raises the turn... i think 3betting is crazy. What do you think his range is? He probably folds all hands that you have beat to the 3bet (perhaps raising for a free showdown), and calls down or caps with all hands that have you beat.

I'd prefer calling the turn and gaybet/calling the river.

That way you at least get extra value from hands that are raising for a free showdown. Those same hands probably fold to a 3bet knowing that they'll have to call 2 bets to show their hand down, and yet at the same time, they'll be forced to show it down for one more bet at the river because of how stupid your line would look.

Well, smash, the point I was trying to make, was that most low limit players are fairly straight forward. And most, would raise my flop bet.

After reading my earlier post, it wasnt the way I wanted it to come out. But thanks for making fun of me

really? even at 1/2 and 2/4 I see at least a few players wait until the turn to pull a check raise.

This may be the case online, where my limited experience has found TAG tables at the 25c/50c tables. But where I play live, which consists of primarily 4/8, the tables are loose and dumb, however quite straightforward.


I just wasnt used to someone pulling a "play" on me. The worst thing I wouldve received was a c/r, and that was rare.

I'm guessing 15-30 live might be comparable to 3/6 or 4/8 online at the least? if so, there are some good players sitting down to play. not amazing, but solid. you won't be seeing Lee Jones poker the whole night.

At Foxwoods I play 4/8 or 5/10 because you'll routinely see 5 and 6 to a flop every hand. Some people even bring books or get up to ask a friend advice.

so when is this poker bubble supposed to burst? hopefully never.

I wouldnt say that live play is necessarily more straight forward, but quite a few players think it is. These are the same players that while they know somthing about what they are doing end up throwing away too many winners and miss a ton of bets (I'm not saying your one of these people).

Seriousely, people that play low limit live make strange plays for reasons that simply cant be explained. I've seen someone wait until the turn to raise with AA plenty of times.

15/30 Live is ALOT worse than 4/8 online. I dont think its close at all.

I was plahing 9-18 live the other night (havent gone higher YET) and it was ridiculous how soft it was.