Hey Everyone,
Daniel.. I Hope you are reading this. If you are, PLEASE do me a huge favor and tell this to Jennifer for me when you see her next:

Jennifers Section on Limit Holdem in SS2 was simply the best written section on poker that Ive ever read. If anyone here is a serious limit player, it is an absolute MUST read. I've been trying to teach my brother about the importance of brute aggression in limit poker, but since he is still raw, it becomes misplaced aggression when he tries. Something like that is very hard to teach someone, especially when they dont have much experience. But Jennifer wrote it in such a way that I was like "Yes!, Come read this!! This is what im trying to tell you!". She articulated the chapter very well, and really put an emphasis on putting pressure on your opponents, but more importantly, keeping that pressure on. She also would go on to explain how to know when its time to apply the brakes during a hand when a bad card/board hits, which again, is very hard to teach someone who is just starting out or learning. Im not a good teacher, but Jennifer made it look easy, and after reading her section, I have ultimate respect for her and her game. If you want to become a great limit player, this is THE definitive text on the game!

Now.. I am about to begin on your Triple Draw Section Daniel.. Ive heard good things about it as well :!:

Cant wait until your Book is out!

QUOTE

If you want to become a great limit player, this is THE definitive text on the game!

thats not true

Actually its vague and forgets alot.

How can u call it the definitive text when it barely touches on odds, how to play from the blinds, etc....dude this book is readers digest of poker, broken up into small sections for each game...it cant go into any sort of great detail.

The sections are more like this: youve never played poker before and you are having someone tell u in 5 minutes how to play and what to look for before u sit at the table.

Go to www.twoplustwo.com, that forum will help u far more than her section. And their books are infinitly better. Start with Small Stakes Holdem and move up to theory of poker to Holdem for Advanced players.

ITs almost and insult to advertise such false information to anyone new to the game looking to get better. And u thinking this is definitive it just shows your ignorance of not branching out your reading...unless of course you are trying to kiss some a$$.

Please go read the better books...there are so many problems with her section that if u cant spot them (not neccecarily missinformation)...well then I want u in my game.

Go to that forum...look under the books section...the debates about how poor her section are will help u out. (not that she tried to write a bad section...u can only do so much in 80 pages...and thats not very much)

Daniels section is excellent...one, because it almost the only info availible on such a game...and two, well, it has more information than is currently availble on said game.

Basically...this section doesnt really touch on anything new that hasnt already been written about. The things that are good...three betting, shorthanded strat and he thinking she goes through...they touch on good things..other than that...u can find better elsewhere

I would LOVE to be in your game knowing your a SSHE lover. I would 3 bet you every single time you raised, knowing you raised with middle pair and a runner-runner flush draw.

So now you have three ppl disagreeing with you that Harmon's section was the definitive limit hold 'em material. I am a huge fan of SSH and I don't consider that to be the definitive. There are no definitives!!!

If you are looking for the magic standard of rules you're deluding yourself if you think you're going to find them in one book, written by one or two ppl. The books present guidelines and senarios to make you think more than the average player. Like the old saying goes when someone asked a pro, "Hey, what do I do with a pocket Aces?" and he responded, "It depends."

They even tell you in SSH and HEFAP that if you mechanically follow their advice you're not becoming a good poker player you're becoming a robot and robots aren't long-term winners.

If all you got out of the 300+ pages of SSH is to raise middle pair with a backdoor flush draw then you need to seriously work on your reading skills. This topic doesn't even make up 5% of the strategies and info they were trying to teach you.

Harmon's piece was great but it's not the definitive by any means. Nor can it be.

So my screen name here is the name I use on all the poker sites.(except UB and Poker Room where someone already has this name.) Sit down anytime. I'd LOVE to have you in my game.

Im Blue58 on Full Tilt. Come on any time youd like to my game, Im on all the time. Cant wait!

Funny I'm on right now and you're nowhere to be found.
At least this site finally got some games going. I gave up on it months ago. Used to have to sit around for a half hour to get one game going.

I love Full Tilt. Just signed up about a week ago. Best site that Ive played on so far, and Ive played at most of them. Anyways... Ive been on, and Im still on.... Its Blue58

Lol. If this is how u think I play, by the book, then sure...whats your screen name on party?

This is what I love about people who think that because u read and like a book u instantly follow that formula...when really to me the book is just intresting theories to think about and if u want apply them to your game.

Its like someone just playing off the hand charts in any poker book, way to predictable...

By the way I never really raise runner runner flush draw...and I see nothing wrong raising middle pair as long as the whole table isnt in with you...if someone reraises or shows a lot of strength, depending on what u feel, back out. Im all for a solid aggresive game, playing possum and just nut peddling is fine if thats your bag...but not mine.

Also, the book doesnt advocate raising a runner runner flush...I dont think u have enough outs, unless u read the part if u have top pair with a backdoor flush possiblity...then yeah, I can see a raise.

By the way...Id sincerely hope you'd three bet my ass everytime I raised.

Wow,
I really got under someones skin

I almost *never* slowplay. I don't feel like limit holdem is a place to be getting cute. All the fancyness might earn you another bet at most, but for every 3 extra bets you'll pick up a session being fancy, you'll lose 10 because you let someone suck out on you for free. I only slowplay flopped monsters if I need someone to catch up in a small pot.

I was going to write alot more, but instead of getting instead of having a contest of "whos di*k is bigger" Im going to turn this into a good discussion in a new thread. I love talking poker with people who actually have a clue what they are talking about, and since that is the reason I came here, lets see if we can put our heads together and come up with some good stuff for everybody. I like Sklansky and have incorporated alot of his work into my game, but there are also alot of things of his I disagree with and I'll explain why (Well.. maybe not alot.. but some). Lets take it over to a new thread.. Ill start it as "Limit Holdem Game Plans"

See ya there,
Blue58

Alright first ditto on the new thread plan.

But also, Im not into the whole dick slinging contest either, or even the occasional "lets go heads up man and we'll see..."

I was just expressing the fact that just because I appreciate Small stakes quite a bit (and to be honest, it is quite good, its teaching u to not be a pussy at the table), it doesnt mean I play just that way at all. My thinking on reading these books is...Im not going to be just some mindless carbon copy playing this way and that...with this game, obviously the winner is someone that can think, recognize a situation and adapt or force the situation to change in their favor (unless of course your opponent is getting delt AA or KK every hand...unlikely)...

I think the whole gamut of twoplustwo books are the best poker has to offer, but they will guide u with theory and math, there is a whole other part out there that will help big time, and thats how good of a player u are, I think the books will help get u there, but there are people that just cant play the game well, not matter what u stick in their face.

Thats the people u were talking about. And to be honest, I would want someone to know that I read that book and loved it at a table (if they knew of it), because thats what they would put me on, and for a while it would give me something to use against them, and when they figured it out, I would just change to something else (if they decent and can spot these sorts of things)...

Anyway long winded, but truth be told, Id rather play somebody who read a mcevoy or cloutier book, hell justa about the whole cardoza line (except for like maybe 2-3 titles there)

Anyway, see u on the other thread.

Also, as a sidenote, there was an argument on twoplustwo.com about some dude check raising all the time in limit, and while its a good thing to use everyonce in a while to protect your hand, he was using it all the time, which obviously will put the fear of god in the fish and they will tighten up and give u less money, always playing scared. Hell they hardly bet their good hands to begin with (especially in NL cash). I think limit is all about agression, if Im in Im raising getting crazy...and while Im playing a good game, they just think Im crazy and rasing all the time.

Anyway, back to Harman's chapter, I too found it vague and basic. What's most annoying are the constant caveats of "do this mostly, but really it depends", and she then briefly mentions a few factors like position and playing styles without further explanation. If you're more than a beginner (and I mean play money type beginner) you won't find much if anything you don't already know or could quickly learn for yourself. I would hope most people here realise flopping a full house means you can afford to let people draw dead and then stuff the pot when they think they've got the best hand, or that bluffing on the river when the hand you're representing isn't consistent with the rest of your actions is a wasted bet, or that a one-suited flop is particularly dangerous if you're not holding or drawing to the nut flush, or that you need to be more aggressive short-handed and heads up etc etc. The few examples Harman gives are mostly worthless too as, despite pointing out expert players make their money in marginal situations, most given examples are fantasy situations any idiot could play well.

the limit section is pretty good, which is actually saying a lot because there has been sooooo much writen on holdem its hard to find anything new that is worth reading.