Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with A:spade:, A:diamond:.
UTG calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, UTG calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) Q:spade:, 5:heart:, 6:heart: (4 players)
UTG checks, MP1 bets, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (12.75 BB) T:club: (3 players)
UTG checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, UTG calls.

River: (15.75 BB) 4:club: (3 players)
UTG checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 17.75 BB

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Comments? Is it ridiculous to think about folding anywhere in this hand? What about the flop cap?

Villain is 22/1/1.29 - 67 hands.

Thanks.

Zach

Nice hand. I like it, normally people cave under pressure and go raise happy.

Try a...umm... more deceptive title. Evidently you lost, but we shouldn't know that.

Is it ridiculous to think about folding anywhere in this hand?


Utterly.

good luck.

Just wanted some positive reinforcement. :dance:

I thought I played it well. 8)

I'd like to see you raise the the turn before going to call down mode.
This looks all to familar, like I would paly it when I'm being too scared.

and no way I'm folding, especially w/o a raise on the turn.
Villian has a Q a lot, of course.


***Read replies ***


Can we raise the turn?
Against this villan, (not very agg) would Raise-Fold turn be good?
It's rarely two-pair with this guy, so callnig turn and fodling river UI makes no sense.

I tend to call down too much because I don't want to fold a winner when he gives me an "FU" 3-bet. So I call down and lose 2 more bets, instead.

It might seem you're beat as villian bets turn out, after capping flop with you, but it may be a case of a great great draw, I would guess 87H.

I think call down mode is good against a LAG, but for me its raise/fold turn.

But after reading alot of posts concerning AA to action, am I letting it go more often than I should be?

And can someone explain to me why I SHOULD be calling down with AA in most cases?

For one, you have AA. It is a strong hand and has showdown value by itself.

Secondly, if we are behind to 2 pair, we have 7 outs to beat it. If we are behind to a set, we still have 2 outs.

Not to mention that fact that we can easily still be ahead in this pot. Have you never seen someone play AQ, KQ like this?

Anyone else have anything to add?

Zach

sometimes you call turn and fodl river UI.
but not on that board.

I cant do it in pots that big against caliber of palyers I see; but perhaps I can find times too, one day

oh..and we have 8 outs to beat 2 pair on the turn.

I would raise the turn and call down if 3-bet. No way villian has QT.

66, actually. Before the cards were flipped, I typed "55?" in the chatbox... I felt smart when he flipped over a set.... lol.

Smarter than me anyway. I was right that he never had QT. :-)

It all comes down to reads. I just assume everyone's an idiot and overplay their tp hands like I do. I raise because of this and to get UTG out of the way.

Smarter than me anyway. I was right that he never had QT. :-)

It all comes down to reads. I just assume everyone's an idiot and overplay their tp hands like I do. I raise because of this and to get UTG out of the way.

Meh. I'll prolly lose value long run if I think I can read people for their hands. But his stats were pretty solid, so a set was the only thing that made sense. Of course, I absolutely have to call down anwyays.

Zach

Yeah.

I call down here against anyone that's halfway decent.

Are you withdrawing your advice for a Turn raise, then, given a solid player read?

haven't read replies, but i'm SURE you're up against a set.

at the risk of sounding like a goofball, i have been known to raise/fold the turn in situations like this against a 1.3 AF if i have enough hands against him/her. if i have seen a set played this way and 2p played differently (as it usually is in my experience) by this guy, then i'm definitely raise/folding the turn. and if you don't take enough notes to know whether s/he will come out against a cap without a set, then you need to take better notes.

at the risk of sounding like a goofball, i have been known to raise/fold the turn in situations like this


So you can lose the same amount of bets 100% of the time instead of showing the hand down and winning some of the time.

Genius.

good luck.

i play against 5k different people online, at least
give me a break about note taking on what they do with sets..or what their flop cap range is.

"OVerplays top pair" ..that's about as good as I may get.
But maybe that's the 2 times I noticed..who knows..relyng too much on that would be bad.

Good point. I know realize my errors concerning AA. Thanks.

indeed, most of the time i call this down, but raising the turn here does have some fold equity against some players in my experience, and it's not a given that you'll get three bet. plus, if you get checked into on the river, you have a chance to improve and get in another bet if you do.

i would never advocate playing it this way all the time, but there are spots for it.

What better hands fold?
Are you trying to fold hands that are behind here?

i've seen people fold weak 2ps here. not often, but sometimes.

and no, i'm not talking about making hands that are behind fold. like, duh.

that's amazing

I don't think we fold better hands, but we may fold hands that have enough outs to call, such as KQ.

you wouldn't fold 56 to me if i raised the turn on you? i would fold 56 against most normal SLP or SLAP players in a situation like this, but i don't use gametime, so i don't know what this guy's stats really signify.

if you can't fold AA in pots like these, where you're likely drawing to one out against the combined field, you're in trouble in the long run, i think. i'd be less likely to fold with the flush draw out there (something like AQ is definitely a possibility), but what i'm trying to suggest with the turn raise/fold play is that there are--and yes, smash et al, this one is not quite the ideal example, since there is a draw on board--where you have to be able to toss overpairs and weaker 2ps, yes, even in seemingly big pots.

here's another question, though, which cropped up for me as i thought more about this hand:

aren't we capping the flop largely for info? and when our little friend bets into a capper on the turn, are we really assuming that he doesn't have at least 2p (the only real possibility of 2p on this board would be 56, which he might fold to a raise, as i said)? and if he does have a set, doesn't his turn bet tattoo it on his forehead?

please note I might have been the first to suggest raising the turn, above.
However, I'm not suggesting fold to a 3-bet
Given we now here this villan is solid, I'll just call down from the turn, and assume he's not overplaying just top pair.
Hard to say whether forcing UTG to look at two is worth the risk of 3-bet on the turn, I tend to think it is.

anyway, I think we differ on what to do if 3-bet, both of us are considering a raise.

I would never (almost) play 56 this way preflop.
If I did I would never fold it to a turn raise, in a 15+ BB pot.

Haha, folding 56 to a raise on the turn is beyond terrible

:shock:

I'm lost for words

If you r just trying to get to the showdown as cheap as possible since u believe ur beat, would it make sense to check/call the turn. and check/call the river. that way u save ur self some bets, bc no matter how often u raise in this situation ur not going to get the guy to fold his set.

no kidding.
We don't know he has a set though.
Sometimes raising to protect our hand from weak draws of the other player and/or jsut extracting more value when we are ahead, makes sense. We risk the 3-bet; however, and have to "guess" whether that risk is worth the other benefits of raising.

Yeah, i understand we have to raise to protect against draws. But if you think ur beat, then why 3-bet? Even a hand like Q10 beats us here. I know that the villain wound up with set of 6s, but he could have raised pre-flop with Q10. Then on the flop seen he had top pair and decided to stick with it. Got the 10 on the turn and now has 2 pair. It just seems liek this is a bad flop to have Aces on. the straight draw on the river, pocket 10s beats us, Q10 beats us, obviously pocket 5s and 6s do as well. There are alot of hands that beat us and the pot is already quite large. If you think your beat, no point in continuing to throw money away, just call down and see what he has.

villan did not raise preflop, CO did.
Although, that's not relevant, probably.

You often raise in big pots when you think you are likely behind in order to extract value from or hopefully fold a 3rd hand that might be the one that beats you otherwiwse. It boils down to how sure you are that you are beat. It's often best to "waste" a bet to fold a hand with 15% equity in a 12 BB pot, for example. At some point you have to ask Coppedit, "if my hand isn't good enough to protect in this huge pot, maybe I should fold. "

my opinon (I'm often wrong)
Tend to raise this turn more when:

1. Pot is big
2. MP1 is Loose/Agg (we could easily be ahead)
3. Mp1 is Tight/passive (he won't 3-bet)
4. UTG makes loose calls and will come along with any draw/or none
5. The board is draw heavy and we can extract value
6. We can improve to best hand, if not already have it.
7. Save pots!

the case where I would not raise in this pos in a huge pot would be when I'm so certain MP has me beat and UTG has a very weak draw and my chances of getting 3-bet are very high....

my opinon (I'm often wrong)

i gotcha. im a little slow, sometimes wording it different makes things click.

Are you suggesting, it is a situation where it is either a raise or a fold?

I am suggesting raising is often a better choice than just calling even when you are not a favorite in a 3 way pot. If folding UTG raises your equity from 28% to 39%, it's worth it. If you have 40% equity and UTG calls or folds, it's worth it to raise.

When we have 28% equity and UTG does not fold and MP 3-bets us, it kinda sux. But that's the risk

So it depends. As I listed above. I don't know MP or UTG well enough, so that part is vague

I would not fold in this pot. I was only trying to make a point, that, at some point you need to realize that "wasting bets to save pots" can be and often is correct. This is a call down or raise/call down situation. Never a fold.

There are situations, like Mid pair with over card and bdfd on the flop in a big pot, where c/r is often the best play and calling in the worst.

I should be working..lol

dbl

very hard hand to get away from. There are many times when i can see folding AA but this would not be one of them.

i dont think i could dump it on this board...id play it the same way you did...if he has a set or somethin like that good for him, ill pay it off.

Too often though i think you'll see something like top pair and the 4 flush though.