Villain is a solid player. Doesnt get too fancy. Plays pretty tight normally but can make moves at times.

Game #1128573094: Hold'em NL (£1/£2) - 2005/12/20 - 14:23:35 (UK)
Table "Passion" Seat 2 is the button.
Seat 1: Dere07073 (£53.25 in chips)
Seat 2: Villain (£211.75 in chips)
Seat 3: Hero (£128.25 in chips)
Seat 4: Airpinco (£179 in chips)
Seat 5: Killerkil sits out
Seat 6: lee h (£197.50 in chips)
subben: posts small blind £1
Airpinco: posts big blind £2
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Hero [Ad 5d]
lee h: folds
Dere07073: folds
Villain: raises to £8
Hero: calls £7
Airpinco: folds
----- FLOP ----- [Jh 2h 2c]
Hero: checks
Villain: checks
----- TURN ----- [Jh 2h 2c][5c]
Hero: bets £10
Villain: raises to £40
Hero: calls £30
----- RIVER ----- [Jh 2h 2c 5c][Jd]
Hero: checks
Villain: bets £50
Hero ??

What does Villain have?

And what should Hero do here?

im leaning towards calling the river since hero called the turn thinking he was good. definitely dont raise, and folding here isnt terrible -- but the river isnt a scare card for the hero because of the turn play imo, and if thats our read then we should follow through and make a (hopefully) great call.

i dont just flat call the turn, if you plan on calling this because you believe you are ahead just reraise, K Q or T smacks you on the river.
i would have lead stronger with your initial bet, something pot size.
i would have folded to his reraise of 40. if you planned on calling, i think you should have pushed...

you call that turn bet villain has no choice to lead the river whether he is ahead or behind -- thats the correct move for him, he made a good play. and you won't know whether you are still or not.

but like i said your read was "im winning on the turn" .. you tried to extract more value from the villain firing another barrel, when the J fell, you felt this was a good card and made the call, and were good.

edit: also fold preflop.

I dont think he has a J.

AK is possible.

Busted flush draw is possible but he likely would have bet the flop with that.

He played it very strange almost as if he flopped a monster.

Does he normally check the flop in position after raising pf when he misses?

The check on the flop and raise on the turn would seem to indicate he has a two. He might also have AJ, but he's definitely strong if he's betting at that board on the river.

villain has Ax where x is not a J, 5, or 2.

Yeah, he kinda played it like he has a 2

I'm folding pf

I'm folding to the turn raise

Then I dont have to make a tough river decision

I fold to the turn raise is well.
I don't see how the river is a tough decision at all though.
Perfect river card - insta call.

Villain normally plays aggressively and bets out on flop in position Id say.


But he has checked the flop when he misses as well.

What makes you say this? Please explain your thought process.

something else i wondered, we dont really get a fold from the villain if he has a pocket pair between jacks and deuces do we?

if we check raise this bet on the river all in i think we still get called by something like 8s. its not much more for him to call.

moving in on this river outright, however, would have gotten the villain to fold these hands, but hes also not taking a stab on a bluff again.

definitely not a situation to try a blocker bet, i think the river check was pretty good actually.

ok sure



its about going with our original read really.
we thought we were good on the turn.

theres about 100 in the pot and 50 more for us to call. we have to be right 1/3 times for this to be a profitable call. so call.

again i reiterate --fold preflop, fold to turn raise.

my reasoning for calling the river is because Hero called the $40 raise (a significant portion of his stack) unquestionably thinking he was good and not looking to improve necessarily or for scare cards.

dont be like michael corbin in "if looks could kill"
and follow through son.



edit: what does opponent think we have? this is an important consideration as well. does he think we have a 2 or a J? nope. $50 is getting called on the river by a 2 and reraised by a jack.

where the hand really went wrong is the entire turn. im not one to throw good money after bad, but those are some good odds to call the river, and thats a good river card after your turn call.

Yeah I guess. What are we getting 3 or 4 to 1 here

I guess it's not that tough

"What does Villian have?"

I say he could very well hold JJ. He made a good size raise pre-flop, slowplayed it on the flop (hoping maybe you were on a flush draw or otherwise made a decent hand), decided to make an average size raise on the turn and got lucky to hit the case J on the river and value bet.

I realize that people may think it's unlikely with the 2 J's on board, but it's certainly possible the way he played this hand. Typical play from a solid player with a pocket pair who doesn't make too many moves. Standard pre-flop raise, slowplayed the boat on the flop, raised on the turn and made a good value bet on the river.

Do we actually know what he held, or did you fold on the river? I'm pretty curious what the actual cards were.




Oh, yeah, probably don't want to be calling a raise, from a solid player who is raising out of position, with Ace-rag. Sooted or not.

Based on his betting, I would put him on possibly JJ or A2 (unlikely though). HE bet 4x preflop wchich would indicate a decent hand (ie something that has HERO beat preflop). Fold the turn raise. If he has JJ or any 2 then there is no way that he will NOT slowplay it on the flop.

Another FOLD PREFLOP.


-fop

Ok heres a hint.

Villain has an Ace. But why would you call his raise on turn?

Ill post results when I come home from work in a few hours.

I'll put Villain on AKc.

Where's my cookie?

Villain is me.

----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Binbs [Kc Ah]
lee h: folds
Dere07073: folds
Binbs: raises to £8
subben: calls £7
Airpinco: folds
----- FLOP ----- [Jh 2h 2c]
subben: checks
Binbs: checks
----- TURN ----- [Jh 2h 2c][5c]
subben: bets £10
Binbs: raises to £40
subben: calls £30
----- RIVER ----- [Jh 2h 2c 5c][Jd]
subben: checks
Binbs: bets £50
subben: calls £50
----- SHOW DOWN -----
Binbs: shows [Kc Ah] (Two Pairs, Jacks and Twos, Ace high)
subben: shows [Ad 5d] (Two Pairs, Jacks and Fives, Ace high)
subben collects £195 from Main pot

What I want to understand here is what is going on my opponents mind since he calls me. Im trying to represent hitting the J and slowplaying it.

Why does he not think hes beat even tho he has a 5. I realize that he might also be calling with a gutshot, but I was sure that at least the river bet would make him fold.

Thinking about it now, i suppose that he put me on a flush draw and called on the river.