FYI, I'm on Party now and loving it.

Please tell me if you would have played any streets differently. Table was generally loose passive. However I didn't have many hands to go on since it was one of my first 10 or so at the table.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J:club:, T:club:.
1 fold, BB calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) T:spade:, A:diamond:, 4:club: (5 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, Button bets, BB calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO folds.

Turn: (7.25 BB) 9:club: (4 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, Button bets, BB calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

River: (11.25 BB) J:diamond: (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 17.25 BB

i would check-raise the river. nothing indicates that button is not gonna bet on the last round.

I didn't check raise the river because I felt like I could be behind to MP or possibly button in the hand. I donk bet the river so that at most I was paying 2 bets when I was beat. Also, a check raise on the river would more than likely knock out MP.

If my hand is good and I bet out, I feel like I get a call from MP many times here with worse holdings, if button just calls my donk bet after MP, I've made the same as check/raising without the danger of knocking out MP's worse hand and being up against Button's 3 bet.

If I bet, MP calls, button raises, and my hand is good, I make a lot more bets because now when I call MP will probably call the 2nd bet if he called the first on the river as he is never facing more than 1 bet at a time.

This is the meat question of the hand I think. I wanted to get a lot of analysis on the river line and why it is good or bad. Obviously if something else could have been different on other streets I don't mind discussing that either.

I look forward to some of the regulars discussing river line with us because I think there are advantages to both ways of playing it, and I'm trying to figure out what was optimal for this situation.

you´re right that mp2 will often fold to a check-raise, but he will also sometimes fold if you bet ( he could have picked up a flush or straight draw on the turn or still be going for two-pair).

if you bet out you will make 2 bets most of the time, sometimes only one.
if you´re beat you lose 2.
if you check-raise you will make 2 bets most of the time as well, sometimes 4.
if you´re beat and get reraised you lose 3 (though he´s not always going to reraise a better two-pair with a potential straight out there.)

facing mp2 with one bet at a time is something i wouldn´t consider in this hand, since you will very seldomly win if button raises.

so i think check-raising is better here.

If you are ahead, the worst case scenario is that you check and the river gets checked around.

If you are behind, the worst case scenario is that you check-raise and then get 3bet.

Leading out takes both of these possibilities out.

I bet, expect the Button to call or raise, and hope MP comes along for the ride.


--cnm

I play it the same (PF limp is good if the game is loose passive).

Actually at a loose-passive table, you should raise here with J10 suited.
Ask Abdul.

Even at a loose passive table I'm folding J10 in early position, If I do come in, it's with a raise. Am I missing something here? Or is the table so loose passive that you're guaranteed a multi way action if you limp? This hand is only good against multiple opponents, and the fact that you're not sure if you will get that many callers, isn't worth the rish of being raised and three bet. If you get raised, most likely you're dominated, and ifyou get three bet, you need a lot of callers to justify paying three bets in early position.

That's my two cents, I really don't like playing these holdings in early position

I wanted to bump this to get aseem, screech, econ_tim, wonderful splash etc to hopefully reply about how they'd play the river. Mostly concerned about how to play the river here. Can anyone do any math for this hand? Wish I knew how to do it my self :[

River is a clear bet.

As CM mentioned, having this river checked around is disasterous.

While it's true that you have no reason to believe the button won't bet again, a lot of loose-passives wimp out on the river.

Your relative position does not matter that much. There's a player in between you and the button on either side, so it doesn't matter how you try to trap people. You do know that BB has checked, making it more likely that he doesn't have a good hand and will fold the river anyway. MP you know nothing about. He may call 1 bet with a weak hand, but fold for 2. So if you c/r, you may only win 2 of button in this case. If you bet, and MP and button call, you still win 2 bets, but only risk one.

Another thing about a c/r is that you expose yourself to a 3-bet which would be hard not to call.

Oh yeah, and did I mention having this river checked through blows?

I like the way you played the whole hand.

I'm really tempted to raise turn, and that was when my hands were over the river card (no info)

I like our equity if at least BB calls a button 3-bet.

I like op's play, especially river.

Raising the turn would be a lot better if we were in position. Even then, I would only raise against passives. Our equity is not that high. 9 outs for a flush + 5 outs to 2 pair or better. Say 12 clean outs. 26% equity. I call.

sniff, me and actuary never get mentioned with that crowd. maybe its because screech usually shows up early and says everything i have to say

my thoughts:

1 - leave party. the last thing i need is another decent player at 2/4 who loves J-10s, otherwise known as the Best Hand In The World

2 -

yes it is. that's party. i think limping here is fine. i prefer to raise since usually you'll have several cold-callers. if its a table where people tend to shrink up to raises though, limping is fine, since seeing it multi-way is important.

3 - turn play. i think your poor absolute position here means you've gotta call. if you were acting directly before or directly after the button, you can bet or raise for equity, but without it, i think a call is correct.

4 - river play. this river gets bet by the button most of the time, so i think going for a CR is not particularly dangerous. however he will often raise this river with a naked ace, so i think betting into him is the better play, given this is 2/4 on party.

5 - seriously. leave party. or at least give me your username and PT stats :wink:

cheers,
daniel

J10s not J10o. You can limp J10s from basically any position in a loose game.

Is Party 2/4 really that loose? God damn, maybe I need to transfer all my money over there. What are the flop percentages, and average pot size at your typical 2/4 table at party?

Last time I played, average VPIPs for a table were usually around 25. Average pot size was around $30.

my bad.
Math erros.
I also figured 12 outs. So we have 1 outta 2.8 chances to win..oh..that was my error :-) . Plus, getting 3-bet and maybe ending up HU really bites

VPIP table averages around 25-28 with average pots around 22-28.
those are averages with little table selection though.

the best part of party though is that there are a lot more maniacs and fish that you can pick on. at any table there are usually 4-5 decent TA-types but at least 2-3 terrible players that everyone else picks on.
it isn't difficult to find tables with at least 1-2 players with 60+ VPIP and PFR either below 3 or above 15.

With pokertracker and constant datamining its a goldmine. Im pretty picky about my table selection and can usually find tables in the high 20's to low 30''s, and sometimes higher.

Thanks for the followup posts guys. I'm happy with how I played it as the things you guys have pointed out were running through my mind as I played it. Usually I just play real quick and then ask if it was good later, this time I felt actively involved while at the table. Sorry I forgot to mention Actuary! Who's mrdannyg? LOL! j/k.

Yes, 2/4 on party is hillariously bad.

I usually open up 4 tables in the highish avg pot range and look to see which ones are best, then I usually pick two and go go go. I just finished my 500 raked hands to pick up my $100 bonus, was very quick to do so.