Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP with T:heart:, T:club:.
UTG calls, Hero raises, CO calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (20 SB) 3:heart:, K:diamond:, T:diamond: (5 players)
SB bets, CO folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (14 BB) 6:spade: (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls, UTG folds.

River: (17 BB) 6:club: (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB folds.

Final Pot: 19 BB

SB: 31/8/2 Seems solid. Wins wuite often, doesn't cold call like most here.

Rest are loose passive for 6 Max

Flop raise was dumb right?
I probably lost about 2-3 BB. ?

I have been rasing lots of flops and been flustred ( QQ, JJ, AQ 2x, AJ, AK, all losers so far. If not for 13BB pot with 78s, I'd be way down)
So I was thinking this raise won't slow legitimate hands down.
I was going to just call any 3 bet.

I would not have capped pf. SB could easily have you crushed.

I like the flop raise. Big pot, no need to slowplay.

Too bad you capped pf. I think you woulda got a lot more action on this flop/turn if you never.

Um, no.

You played this hand completely fine. The flop raise is SUPER standard.

nh.

EDIT: didn't see the preflop cap. Just call the three-bet. The rest is fine.

so you think it was the preflop cap not flop raise that may have hurt action?
Well, SB lead out?

Perhaps it was the combination.

I was in a "Fuck the fish, I'm getting whipsawed" mood

Also may have gotten the advice mixed up about raising TT from the SB with several limpers. And I thought it might be for value to cap. Tieing everyone to the hand just a little more, can easily make up the extra SB.

I see now how capping is that extra bet that some may notice.
the K on flop hurt my action, I'll say that much.

It's a different story when everyone limps to you.

Here you are up against an opponent who 3-bet. An overpair is a serious liability.

And it doesn't tie anyone to the pot. Instead, they back off even when they have a peice of teh flop, because they fear a high pp. If anything, it reduces your action.

yeah, I know.
That's why I said I was mixed up :?

On flop rasie.
Sure, big pot.
So I raise for value.
The other 3 will always call

But aren't I hurting future likelihood of SB leading out?
Is getting CO to fold (what?) important?

I could have JJ-AA based on cap. Just calling here will encourage AA/AK to bet again.

thanks for help all.
I'm kinda thick on this stuff.

im not a fan of the flop cap...10s are hard to play in a multiway pot against multiple people when an over card hits...

flop is standard...

rest is unfortunate since u have the best hand

Obviously I'm playing T's for set value.
I thikn capping disguises the hand.
I think my flop raise combined with pf cap said "AK/KK"

Flop raise might be standard, I still say it costs money

am I wrong?

flop play is standard...that opened up a lot of draws for people and u need to make them pay to chase

that's a cliche; but don't I lose out becasue SB is less apt to lead the turn now?
I'm not sure of this, I just think I make more waiting.
Everyones calling with a draw anyway

hmm well lets think about this mathematically....

If you just call...assumin the players make the same moves...thats 24sb = 12bb

on the turn if they all call then it gets to u getting 15-1 regardless of what hits....getting 15-1 u can chase a 3 outer so yeah now that i think about it..u maybe coudl have waited to raise till the turn.

The problem lies if say a diamond hits and it gets raised by the time it gets to you....

say ur still getting 12-1 and turn is a diamond
sb bet, bb raises, now when it gets to u, ur getting around 7.5-1 which is a lot closer though u still can probably draw to ur boat profitable...

it is close but maybe waiting to the turn may be more ev

I dunno about the advantages of that stuff...

But personally I'm worried about what kind of value we're getting by raising a preflop 3-bettor, who's average range here unfortunately has TT drawing thin most of the time.

I also think you feel like a genius when you cap preflop with TT and flop a set... which is the real concern here.

Stop thinking like this.

You wouldn't be delving into the academics of raising/calling the flop if a diamond hit the turn or river.

This is for value, and we're trying to turn a big pot into a monster pot with a set. It's as simple as that.

I'm capping the flop if necessary, and probably capping the turn as well if I have a fellow raiser (and hopefully customers). I'm losing lots of money to KK, but that's what's supposed to happen if we both flop sets.

Waiting for the turn deals more with protecting your hand, which implies that your hand is very vulnerable to a large field. A set is far less vulnerable than an overpair, and you'd be missing out on value (money) by not raising the flop.

big pot + draw heavy board + monster hand = jam the f'n flop!

This effectively "undisguises" your hand. When you cap pf and an A/K hits the flop, and you still play your hand hard, people give you credit for a monster. They probably don't think you have TT, but they do think AA/KK/AK. Either way, they won't give you action.

Actuary, you played it perfectly postflop. Maybe there's more value in waiting for the turn, but there's no way to protect your hand with that pot size (except against JJ, QQ, AA, who may be calling any number of flop bets, anyway). You'll see lots of action from AA/AK/AdQd, so why not ram and jam the flop? Once in a blue moon, you'll kill the action. When that happens, just shrug it off and be happy with the pathetic 19 BB pot you pulled down.

I'm apparently a bad communicator.

I have never in my life capped with TT.
So I know it's not for value.
But it's not far off.
Had the K not come down, a Set of K's would not have been feared by the SB.

The "disguise" comment was only mentioned in conjuction with my later flop raise. The preflop cap + this flop raise slowed my action down.

I did make 2.5 BB by capping preflop.
I honestly think I gave it back by raising the flop.
3 SB for FLop Raise, But lose probably 4 BB's on turn.

All I'm getting is jam pot, you have a set.
I want to know why waiting until the turn doesn't make more sense.

If this is the reason let me know: Because hands calling the flop Raise may lose interest once the turn hits?

Ok, I see that possibility, but once I show I'm still raising, the others can no longer expectect a cheap showdown, like they could if SB was the only bettor. A lot of crappy hands will call his Turn lead and my Raise, that would not call if they knew I was rasing afterwards.

Why do I not want to encourage SB to lead the turn?
I'm not asking about protecting my hand, I"m asking about getting the most money in the pot.

TJ: Who the heck says I'm a genius for hitting my set? You are not a good reader of people.

I said I was in a screw the fish, kinda ticked at the suckouts. BTW TT is not drawing thin to SB's 3-betting range. AK = 16 combos, 99 = 6, AA-JJ = 24. We'll be ok, as long as we don't stick around if the players start gonig crazy and we miss.

My poker IQ is dropping while my BankRoll is accumulating.

All I'm getting is jam pot, you have a set.
I want to know why waiting until the turn doesn't make more sense.

From my short-sighted point of view...

1. everyone is more likely to be calling on the flop when they have two cards to draw to
2. make them pay the max for those draws
3. tie them to a big pot so when a blank falls on the turn they still have to call

At least you know you're playing for set value. However, capping pf does nothing to tie people to the pot. When it get's 3-bet pf, the pot is already big enough to tie people to it.



It's not even that. If the board had come T72, you still would not get that much action on your set. This is because your pf cap screams big pp/AK. When you raise the flop, AK can get thrown out the window. They will think you have a monster, and while they probably don't put you on a set of tens, the effect is the same.

The reason you raise this flop is because your opponents could be peeling with anything, planning to fold the turn UI. You should get their money while you can. Also, there's no guaruntee sb will lead the turn if you just call.

It's not even that. If the board had come T72, you still would not get that much action on your set. This is because your pf cap screams big pp/AK. When you raise the flop, AK can get thrown out the window. They will think you have a monster, and while they probably don't put you on a set of tens, the effect is the same.

I'm not following one thing here. By this logic shouldn't we never cap with monsters because it will kill our action if there is a big flop?

just devil's advocating here

We cap AA to exploit an immediate edge.

Here, we are playing TT for set value - we don't have an immediate edge. Our cap will diminish the action when we hit or set which is counterproductive. Also, TT is much stronger than AA.

Sppedz: you cap prelop with monsters because you have great pf equity.
My potential here comes from post flop implied odds.

Screech: Given I capped preflop. Could I not have slowed down on the turn to help undo the effects,; thereby, encouraging SB to lead out?

Also let me correct something:
I did not "win 2.5 SB's" by capping the preflop.
That's results based. Maybe "I won 0.4" doing so.
If that makes sense.

SB had AA. So that's causing some distorted thinking perhaps.


is anyone hiring?

Villian will usually still give you action with AA/AK, and will slow down anyway with QQ/JJ. I know what you're saying, but raising this flop is still more profitable in the long run I think. It's not often players will slow down like that with AA.

i run good again.

Just $25 short of my next goal!

you can make 5 straights with TT !