aim786
Sunday, November 27th, 2005, 2:00 PM
(I think I should have posted this in general strat, but it really has to do with microlimit so yea)
Alright, well I've been playing LHE for about 6 months now, and I've moved up from .25/.5 to .5/1 to 1/2 (just recently, after I had logged about 15-20k hands at .25/.5 and .5/1). I am probably currently a break even player, w/o bonuses I would probably have gone broke by now. I was lucky in the sense that before I ever played a hand of real money poker I had read SSHE and alot of stuff on the internet (although I probably did'nt understand most of it at the time) which definetely prevented me from going broke early on.
I stopped playing after about 3 months because I hit a downswing (lost about 100 BB's at .5/1), and then began really studying poker again. I bought some more books, including TOP, HEFAP, SS1 and SS2. Now I feel much more confident in my game, although I must admit I still have much to learn. With that intro, here are some q's I have:
1) The starting hand table in SSHE is one of the reason's I probably did'nt lose as much as I should have for a poker newb. I know that nothing is ever absolute in poker, but I don't know if I'm ready to deviate from its recommendations just yet. How many of you guys use this? If you stopped using it, at about what time was this in your poker career?
2) As I said before, I just recently moved up to 1/2. I'll be the first to say I don't play above my head (not since I learned of BR management). I have the roll to play 1/2, but I still think I'm a break even player. Having said that, I want to know at which limit (approximately) the gameplay changes dramatically? From what I can see, 1/2 and .25/.5 are not very different, so to me it does'nt make a big difference playing at one or the other, however I can clear bonuses much quicker at 1/2, so I prefer playing at that limit.
3) When should I start working on shorthanded play, and at what limit? I know the norm is to have a 300 BB bankroll for full ring LHE, but since the variance is higher at 6 max, what should my target bankroll for that be?
4) As far as multitabling goes, I usually 2 table. I know the idea with multitabling is to optimize your winnings, but like I said I'm about a break even player. I could probably 3 table now, but my question is should I be multitabling in the first place if I am a break even player right now?
5) I don't know if this is a phase everyone goes thru, but ever since I started reading these books, I feel I've become far too passive (ie my AF is below 2). I don't like capping unless I hold the nuts (although I realize this is probably -ev in the long run), and many times I feel like I'm just outthinking myself. For example, I usually give fishes too much credit for what they hold, even though I know they might not have much. So, is this just me or does every1 go thru this at first?
Any other tips would greatly be appreciated.
Thanks
TheCinciKid
Sunday, November 27th, 2005, 7:37 PM
I'm mult-tabling myself right now, so I wasn't able to read and digest your whole post, but a couple of things stuck out to me that I want to address.
1) .25/.50 and .5/1 are about the softest games you will ever encounter. Some sites are rockier than others, FullTilt for instance has a ton of rocks at the .5/1 level, but if you stick to a good site like Party .5/1 should be very easy to beat.
2) In my experience, every level requires some adjustments when you move up. I saw my winrate decrease drastically when I moved up to 1/2. On Party at least the games there simply aren't as soft as the .5/1 games.
3) Get Pokertracker or a similar program and track your winrate. Until you're beating .5/1 for a minimum of 2 BB/100 over a minimum of 10k hands, don't move up. Your decision on what level to play should be based just as much on whether you're a winning player at the previous level as it is on how much money you have set aside for poker. If you're not beating .5/1, you're going to get killed at 1/2.
4) In order to beat 2/4 and above you will need to be able to play shorthanded or heads-up pots well. This is something I'm personally struggling with myself right now. So, once you've shown a solid winrate at .5/1 and 1/2 full and have about a 1200 bankroll, you should probably start trying to learn 6-max at the .5/1 or 1/2 level. Then, once you're beating 1/2 6-max you can move up further.
5) Finally, as far as multi-tabling is concerned, I think it's something of a personal thing. Most people would probably tell you that you should 1-table until you've established yourself as a solidly winning player. The reason for this is that your winrate generally goes down a little with each new table you add. Personally though, I multi-table mainly because I think i"m slightly ADD and it helps me to stay disciplined and keep from playing too many hands out of boredom.
aim786
Monday, November 28th, 2005, 11:42 AM
I think I should clarify a few things, and maybe take back a few statements I made.
I had PT for a while, but amount 2 months ago my hard drive crashed and I lost all my info, and thus I don't know exactly what my winrate was at .25/.5 and .5/1. So, in light of your post I decided to spend an hour or two to get a good approximation on how much I've made at .25/.5 and .5/1. Looking through my neteller records/emails, and making some educated guesses, I think my winrate at .5/1 (I considered my .25/.5 winnings as part of my .5/1), is roughly between 1 BB/100 to 1.4 BB/100. However, again this is an approximate, and also this is over roughly 15-20k hands, in which for maybe 7.5-10k hands I was playing like a relative newb (except for preflop, where I was using the SSHE chart).
As far as short handed play is concerned, is there a similar chart to the one in SSHE for preflop considerations? And what's a good book on shorthanded play, I know HEFAP talks about it, but is there anything else?
TheCinciKid
Monday, November 28th, 2005, 12:22 PM
I have some info on shorthanded play that I will try to send you later when I get home. I think I may have a hand chart, but I haven't really started getting into shorthanded play, so I don't know a lot about it.
Based on your estimated winrate, I personally, think that you ought to stay at .5/1 for a while. Get PT back up and running again and try to establish a solid winrate before moving up.
I base this mainly on personal experience. I've beaten .5/1 for approximately 4 BB/100 over my last 12k hands, but I have beaten 1/2 for any more than 2 BB/100 and I'm actually a losing player at 2/4 right now, albeit only marginally. My point is simply that I think the games get harder to beat as you move up and you should be beating .5/1 for a solid rate, since it is probably the easiest game to beat (at least on Party), before you try to beat tougher games. And trust me, 1/2 really is more difficult to beat than .5/1.
TJ_Eckleburg
Monday, November 28th, 2005, 3:28 PM
1) There is more research than we can comprehend that went into the SSHE starting hands charts. You'll know when it's time to deviate. You'll start playing individual players instead of playing cards the way SSHE tells you to defend/attack the pots. That thinking gets people in trouble, though, so if you're unsure of it, and still at low stakes, don't worry about it.
2) BIG difference between 1/2 and 3/6, and 2/4 is a good buffer in between, at least in my experiences on Partypoker.
3) Start working on it whenever you want to, but a bankroll of 400-500 BB is better. There's higher variance shorthanded vs. ring. If you wanna just mess around with it, you can take a table with your 300 big bet bankroll and get your feet wet at what stakes you're playing, but when you decide to seriously make some money at it, that's when you should start thinking about 400-500 BB.
4) bb/100 per table goes down as tables go up. That's really a judgment call. If you're feeling froggy, give it a 10k hand experiment at 3 tables and see how it goes. If you feel like you're a breakeven player though, wait til it's 2+/100 before giving it a try.
5) Everyone has their own leaks that come from their own backgrounds outside of poker. I personally never had a problem with aggression factor, but that's because I played no limit first and I love being hyper aggro. Passiveness wasn't really a problem with me, but spewing was (and still is). It's all about eliminating your own leaks relative to averages that are proven to be winning ranges. Get that AF up. Post hands.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please
click here.