BB is loose-nothing. 45/8/0.9 over 700 hands.
Button is a loose-passive. 55/12/0.5 over 430 hands.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9:diamond:, A:diamond:.
UTG calls, Button calls, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls, Button calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 9:heart:, 8:spade:, 6:spade: (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12 BB) A:spade: (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

River: (16 BB) 5:diamond: (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets

I hated my flop call of the 3-bet on this board. What do you guys think?

On the river, I think I have button beat a good portion of the time, but I think I rarely beat BB. Gotta fold, right?

What do you guys think my other two opponents have?

Very interesting hand.

I have absolutely no idea what the hell to do here, so I will be of no help.

I kinda think the BB has the flush, and the Button is trying to push him off of a straight or something stupid. His comment his donkarific.

I think you are probably beat here enough to fold, but alas, I'm not nearly an expert. Either way, if I'm playing good poker, and paying full attention, I think I should be folding the flop, but if not, I would have a tough time getting away from it after the Ace hits.

BB has 710 or 75 for a flopped straight here pretty often I think. Not sure about the button his comment is confusing me. Having 7x seems to make sense the way he just called down then raised the river when it hit.

uh.

hmm.

i just play this hand so differently on all streets i really can't tell you exactly what i think you did right/wrong.

for starters, i don't raise preflop and this changes everything usually. but, i don't care if you do.

i think folding the flop is really pretty terrible. i think calling was fine.

i think you should lead the turn and hope BB raises his worse two pair. if he has a flush, you're losing money anyway on this street.

i don't think your river fold is that terrific, but it's really close.

aseem

Regarding the flop call:

Assuming everyone calls, I'm getting 9:1 on that flop call. If it gets capped, I get 7:1. Let's assume that on average then I'm getting 8:1 to make that call.

Given the action, it's very unlikely that I have the best hand right now. Even in the off chance that I am currently best, the flop action and the coordinated nature of this board mean that I will have to dodge nearly every card in the deck to remain best at showdown.

Another problem is that when I'm behind, my outs are very dirty. The 9s/As may give someone a flush (or at least set up a redraw). I may also be drawing to runner/runner vs a straight/set.

It seems to me that most of my outs are pretty worthless and that I am drawing very slim. Another thing is that if I hit one of my outs on the turn, it will still be hard for me to find out where I stand, and I may end up paying a lot of bets before I find out.

Aseem,

I read every post as you know in these LHE forums and one thing is clear.

You "error" towards aggression/not folding in multi-way pots, while finding reason to fold HU pots. Well, of course, it's due to the pots being much bigger in the mult-way case.

I just sometimes think you error too much on both sides, a tad.
By "error", I mean, I'm not quite up to your caliber yet to understand the nuances of your thinking, type of error.

that's all.


Screech:
you like your pf raise ?
I do. It's 6-Maxirrifc

But, it makes folding the flop tough.

screech, those are good points. i tend to think in a different perspective, that your hand is often best on draw-heavy boards because your opponents get aggressive with draws. still, i think folding here is leaving money on the table and not pushing an edge.

actuary, yeah i get what you're saying. i dig.

aseem

Yeah. Only bad players with garbage hands limp in 6-max (not entirely true, but it's unlikely a better ace is out). I'm raising here with ATs in a full game, so A9s here can't be bad. I'd probably go as low as A8s.




No no no. The players in my game are supposed to be aggressive. That's why I call down with TPWK hands. The players in your games are supposed to be passive, and not push draws. I'm supposed to call down here, you're supposed to fold this flop.

I see your point. But how often does my hand have to be good on this flop to make calling down profitable (if they're pushing draws this hard, I'm going to get outdrawn quite often). And how often is my hand actually good here seeing as how everyone seems to be in love with their hand (I doubt they all have draws).

I think on the flop I have a bad case of reverse implied odds.

[quote=screech][quote=screech]I see your point. But how often does my hand have to be good on this flop to make calling down profitable (if they're pushing draws this hard, I'm going to get outdrawn quite often). And how often is my hand actually good here seeing as how everyone seems to be in love with their hand (I doubt they all have draws).

I think on the flop I have a bad case of reverse implied odds.[/quote]

this could possibly be true, but also understand i'm not saying you ncessarily have to call down. the turn matters. if the turn brings a four-straight or a third spade or maybe even an overcard that introduces more straight cards, you can consider folding, and you especially should fold to two cold in those situations.

when you hit two pair, though, and no straight draws have improved, i think you should make an attempt at protecting your hand. while it's true that on the flop you don't always have the best hand, i think you have the best hand a decent percentage of the time on the turn, and this percentage doesn't need to be all that big given the pot size.



aseem

Yeah I admit I really blew it on the turn. It could of had something to do with me being so amazed at all the bets that went in on the flop.

that's right. admit it, loser. YOU BLEW IT. say it again. YOU BLEW IT.



i crack myself up too easily.

okay, i seriously need to stop freaking posting. i have to leave in one hour and i haven't even started packing yet!!!! HOLY LOVE OF GOD!!!!!!!!!

aseem

Wait!

Someone just replied to one of your posts!

fuck!!!!!!

hahahahaha, no really, i'm out of here. i just want to post one.. more... hand.....



aseem

censored?

okay, PF-perfect. I'm raising with sooo many hands there that are suited that its not funny

flop- I think that I agree with your assesment and folding is probably the best play. Just look at all of the action that these guys are giving, there is no way your hand is good


turn- here i think that you can CR this. These guys are just as likely to be giving all of that action with 2 pair hands that you now beat. Either that, or lead out


river- easy fold



I hope that you put this up ion HUSH. I think that there's some interesting stuff going on there on the turn to be honest

I never even considered c/ring the turn. I was kinda suprised by the lack of action on the turn. I guess once everyone just calls, the only opponent that I really have to worry about is BB.

I'll post it over in HUSH and see what kind of replies it gets.

Here's the link if anyone's interested:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthre...r=4008375&page=

I like the PF raise. As for betting the flop however, I think there are simply too many cards on the turn that make you hate your hand. Isn't this a case of passing a small edge on the flop for the chance of pushing a much larger one on the turn? If a bad card comes on the turn, it's now an easy fold.