Party Poker 2000/4000 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: PWNAGE is BB with T:club:, 9:club:.
1 fold, MP3 calls, SB folds, PWNAGE calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (21 SB) T:spade:, 2:club:, 7:club: (5 players)
PWNAGE bets, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (17.50 BB) Q:heart: (3 players)
PWNAGE bets, MP3 folds, PWNAGE calls.

River: (27.50 BB) J:club: (2 players)
PWNAGE bets, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: 32.50 BB


this was insanely awesome. how convenient that right when i decide i'm going to start playing good suited connectors far more aggressively for value (a thing abdul whats-his-name stressed), i flop a monster and get insane action from airy hands.

as far as strat, feel free to discuss the merits of raising preflop like i did. also, i realize the turn three-bet is somewhat light, but i'm not sure it's exactly a mistake. i thought the chances that i had the best hand (apparently i did) along with my chances to hit my monster draw on the river gave me enough overall equity to push an edge three-handed.

aseem

2000/4000 Hold'em?

Is this play money aseem?

Either way, nice hand.

way real money game. i'm just poking fun at what i consider to be silly rules as far as separating forums go. a $1/$2 hand really deserves to be in a completely different forum than a $2/$4 hand?

aseem

I completely agree. I'm happy if people like you and the others who regularly play higher levels than my .50/1 will come visit the Micro section and provide input, but it seems like this is just making it more difficult to get good advice, while we grind it out in the low limits trying to learn the game.

Zach

With 5 limpers in ahead of you, I definitely agree with the raise PF. I think with one less limper, I would check (but raising still might be better).

You're about 12.5% to hit the flop hard (2-pair or better, or a flush draw or 2-way straight draw [EDIT: that will hit by the river]). And there are enough limpers that I think raising helps your implied odds by tying them to the pot (more so than it hurts them by investing more initially). Plus there are other flops that are probably +EV on average (top pair, gutshot+pair).

I agree with your thinking on the turn as well, I think it's pretty close; I think 3-betting is definitely better if there's any chance MP3 will fold to a cap, as he did here.

how exactly did you arrive at this?

my understanding was i'm about 12.5% to flop JUST a flush draw. any two cards are also about 5% to flop two pair or better. then add open-ended straight draw possibilities (positive equity edge) of maybe 5% (?) and i think i have a way good edge. however, having a total flop equity of almost 25% doesn't quite seem right. maybe several of these are overlapped? maybe closer to 17.5% might be more realistic?



this can't be emphasized enough. seriously.


aseem

Oops.. sorry, I'm tired.... The numbers I gave reflect the chances of flopping a good draw and then having it get there by the river, which I think is a more meaningful figure when trying to estimate preflop odds (since flopping a draw and missing doesnt' do you much good (other than that you can occasionally win the pot either with a bluff or by staying in to make something like 2 pair).

that's slightly incorrect.

flopping a "good" draw (flush or open-ended straight), you will often have a positive equity edge in a field of more than two opponents. that is, you can profitably bet and raise since you are making money for each bet or raise.

so, you shouldn't discount either of these draws at all.

aseem

I'm so beffuddled by Mp1 and UTG+2's play preflop, I can't speak.
I need to work my way up to 2000/4000 asap.

I should look into that raise with a hand like that.

ps. Forum splits are +EV. As long as strong players take time to critque Micro Hands too. The split should not effect that. The split just makes it easier to sift thru and find hands/levels to review that are in line with your current needs. Like when I play SH, I want a SH forum.

Quit steppnig out of line Aseem.

i really can live with split forums, but i think it's just moderately annoying that there is such a distinct tyrannical line between the forums. since when is $1/$2 so harshly different from $2/$4??

if you're going to imitate 2+2, you can use their philosophy that people can really just post basically any limit they want in either forum. it just happens to naturally work either way. some 50c/$1 games play like $5/$10, some $30/$60 games play like $300/600, some $20/$40 games play like 2c/4c.

on 2+2, you will find stakes as low as $15/30 in the MHS forum and stakes as high as $20/40 in the SSHE forum. you will also sometimes find stakes like $3/6 in the micro forum. you will sometimes find 50c/$1 in the SSHE forum. etc.

my thing is just that the rules shouldn't be so dictatorship-like. if someone posts a 50c/$1 hand in the limit forum, who cares? or if someone wants to post a $3/$6 hand in the micro forum because they are just starting out, let them.

/end rant.

aseem

Where were you when I posted a thread about this in the micro forum? Everyone seemed to prefer it there for some odd reason.

Anyway, turn 3-bet is crap, but other than that nice hand.

Jeff

Another added benefit of raising pf is that you get your odds to chase gutshots later in the hand. j/k

I like how everything was played until the turn. I would have just flat called. I find it very hard to believe you are ahead on the turn. I would think all your outs are clean, making you just over a 2:1 underdog. So a 3 bet can not be for value.

I think the chance that you are ahead roughly cancels out the chance that all your outs are not clean. Another thing to consider is that the 3-bet may fold out a worse hand. This doesn't really help your winning chances, since you probably have to improve to win.

I'm not suggesting that it's bad to flop a draw; your implied odds in a large field are good when you do flop one, and they were better in this case because of the large pot your preflop raise (and the subsequent reraising) created.

But when you flop a draw, you should generally only raise for value when there will be enough callers that your bet has positive equity, given your odds of hitting (although sometimes, you raise for reasons other than value). I'm just applying that same logic preflop.

akishore, don't be a nit. no one's suggesting some colossal difference 1/2 and 2/4. it just happens to be a nice place to divide the forum. i think it's a good idea.

any hand at 2k/4k not including the line "on the river, 3-bet, fold to a cap" isn't worth my reading.